To NOT want my husband to have a makeover and dress as a woman?

[Katie4u]

I have known about my husband's need to dress as a woman for almost 20 years. I came home unexpectedly one day to find him wearing my clothes. I was shocked and quite frightened. He explained that this was something he had been doing in secret since he was a little boy. Me being me, I felt sorry for him. We spoke about it for quite a while - I couldn't shut him up - I tried to understand him, but it became clear to me that this wasn't something that was going to go away. I told him that I didn't want to be part of it, that our children mustn't ever see him or know about it and he has been true to his word. There have been times when he has asked if he could dress and be with me and I must confess that, in bed, he was a lot more passionate making love to me dressed in my undies than he was when he was naked ... he's not gay! Now that our kids have flown the nest, he has had more opportunity and is taking more risks. He wants to know how good he would look with a professional makeover and he has found a place where he can go to do this. I have said no. I'm frightened where tis might lead? Am I being unreasonable?!

The thing about those places which do a professional makeover are that they tend to have "stereotypes" - the nurse, office worker, school girl - where the outfits seem to be ...sexy / tarty and a bit of a fantasy.

Taking more risks - what do you mean by that? Do you think he wants to be "caught"?

It's true that it is much harder for men when it comes not just to clothing choice but even things like shaving legs and having long hair. The worst thing a man can do is look like a woman or even act like one (as far as society goes).

The clubs are a good outlet. If he lives near a big city, there will be one. I think people would be surprised how many men do "cross dress". It will help him and is a safe outlet as he can get dressed there.

Wow, you guys are amazing, I can't tell you how much you have helped me here - thank you! You're right, I do need to make a better effort at understanding his need for a makeover. He tells me that has never really mastered makeup (who has?!) and that he stopped trying some years ago - although I had often observed him taking a keen interest in me when putting on my slap, I hadn't realised he had been trying on my makeup! He says he would like to see how good he would look dressed AND made up. I guess understanding him better is one thing, being fearful of where it might lead is probably more where I'm at right now. The place he's going to organise day and night trips for men who want to do this, they go to clubs, theatres and restaurants - when he told me I told him it was a bit rich that he didn't take me out to those places as my husband! I asked him how he would feel if another guy approached him and my heart sank when he told me he would be thrilled! Does this mean he is gay? But he isn't, I know that, I'm just very confused!

The best thing you can do is speak to him about your confusion and fears. It will be good for both of you :)

Lots of sensible advice from annie, orlando and others.
The idea that his desire to cross dress has to be a dirty little secret, kept from the rest of the family, etc, is all rooted in our fundamentally sexist culture.
Think about the different types of women you know. Some are ultra feminine and love wearing dresses, jewellery, etc. Some love make up. Some like wearing smart or fashionable clothes. Some, like me, are much more comfortable dressing like men. Not literally- I'm not trying to dress as a man- but I like comfortable, practical clothes like jeans, trainers, t shirts, jumpers etc. Am I expected to keep this a secret, done only at the weekends in the privacy of my own home? No! Because of sexist double standards.
Surely men vary just as much as women in how they want to dress, but it's considered some sort of problem if they like feminine clothes.
Well done on supporting your DH. Keep talking, and do some reading up- coming fom the viewpoint that society is the problem, not your DH.

I think he means he would be thrilled to 'pass' as a woman.

Cross posted with you, op. I guess he means he'd be thrilled because being approached by a man would mean he's mastered the female 'look', and not that he'd want anything to happen? Have you shared your concerns that you're worried about his sexuality? Could he be bisexual? In which case you have nothing to worry about!

I find men in drag disturbing. I would prefer if my partner wasn't a cross-dresser. However, it'd be more important to me to accept him as he is. Much as I dislike the idea of him wearing make-up and women's underwear I'd hate the idea that my limitations would make him feel ashamed and feel as though he had to hide away something that was important to him being him.

This episode is relevant to you.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00nsnhx/The_Change_Series_1_Over_the_Rainbow/

His wife has just found out.

Katie, we all get to that life stage when we realise that there will be no magic wand, not all that much "tomorrow/next year/one day" and so those things that matter to us, matter more. As mid life crises go, this one is much nicer than many. He still loves and respects his family. He just has always wanted to play this part, if you like. Explore another persona, as actors do.

What about you? I think you also deserve a treat. What have you been putting off and being unselfish about all these years? Not as revenge, you understand, but as recognition that you both deserve to be kind to yourselves and do the things that have had to wait before.

Not knowing your family, if I had to guess, I would say that he would rather not throw everything away by making this about casual sex with strangers or even about a very public appearance as a woman. If you can let him explore this in a safe territory, without undermining your marriage and your life together, I think you will make the man you love very happy.

I guess I don't understand why this bothers you so much. I can see that it does but I don't understand why. He still loves and desires you, he isn't going to leave you to live a new life, from everything you've said he isn't a neglectful or cruel husband. He just likes the look and feel of women's clothes - I can understand that. I am wearing a long swishy shirt, a tight-fitting top and a big colourful scarf today - I love the feel of the silky skirt fabric, I love the flamboyance of the scarf, I love the fact that the shirt accentuates my waist. Usually I wear leggings, short dresses, big cardies or waistcoats, or jeans but sometimes I like to wear something more feminine or dramatic. And I can. Men aren't allowed to. And that is unfair.

"Me being me, I felt sorry for him."

That is very generous of you, I hope I could be so forgiving.

OP, YADNBU.

Really Pendeen? I thought it should have been more along the lines of "me, being the woman who loves my husband, I felt I could accept this aspect of him...".

You've had lots of good advice and wise words, OP. I hope that you both can work things out together. Yet again Mumsnet members come to the rescue .

For myself, I would support my husband if he told me he wanted to wear women's clothing, and we would seek help together from support groups etc.

Are you aware if what it is frightens you so much OP? Are you frightened that he wants to live full time as a woman? That secretly he may self-identify as a woman? That you think he'd really like to undergo gender reassignation surgery? That any or all of these questions makes you not fancy your DH any more? Or the opposite - it really does turn you on? That other people will pick on you, your DH or DC? Maybe if you knew what was going on with you some more it would help you both discuss it?

I was in love with a cross-dresser in my teens - I regret that I didn't understand or support the person I knew as a boy more then. This person is now living full-time as a woman, which has included gender reassignment surgery and hormonal therapy. She is much happier, but has had a hell of a time getting there.

Would I be more understanding now of a long-term partner? I would try, but I think like you, I would find it hard. So please don't feel bad for feeling the way you do - your feelings count here too!

Katie it doesn't sound like your DH is respecting your boundaries here. You've told him you don't want to see it or be a part of it but he has continued to ask to dress with you and now he's involving you with discussing this makeover and telling you he would be thrilled if a man approached him in a bar. Sounds like there is some gaslighting going on here. You've said you feel your feelings have been compromised. There's no shame in not accepting your DH's behaviour and no kudos or pats on the back for accepting something you don't want. A marriage is not something to be endured.

You're worried about where this will lead. No-one here knows that but if he wants a makeover and says he would be thrilled about being approached by a man in a bar, there is certainly a lot more to this than simply liking the look and feel of women's clothes.

Your boundaries are important and you shouldn't feel pressured by him or anyone else into accepting something you are not comfortable with.

My (limited) understanding of transvestitism is that it is part of who somebody is, part of their identity. It's not a hobby.

We've had these type of threads before. Woman posts saying how disgusted she is. But it's always part of the story that she was aware of partner's preference very early on in the relationship but had shamed him in to denying and hiding his desires and then she feels betrays when it comes out later. I feel it's analogous to asking somebody not to be brunette and then feeling aggrieved when the roots start to show.

I am with Flora on that - there seems to be a real drive to be seen by others as a woman going on here, not just to 'play' in private. Is this what is disturbing you?

I really am no expert - as I said my own experience was in my teens - but even that made me aware of how intense that desire can be. It can really be very consuming for some people indeed, and that can make it hard to.negotiate in a way which respects your needs and feelings too. Although of course not everyone who cross-dresses will want to live full-time in that gender, and there are quite specific issues which arise in relation to that.

"He gets so moody when he can't dress and I'll often go out so he can; when I come back he is a much nicer person. It seems to calm him down?"

I think that's called being happy. Could you stop him from being happy?

As much as you are deciding whether or not to keep him, he will be wondering whether or not to keep you. He's with a woman who doesn't like him. Not his real identity. You like what he's pretending to be, but will he be able to live like that? I usually suggest counselling. Please keep talking. It will not go away.

Transvestites vary from near transsexual who likes to be realistic, all the way to the fetish side of things, such as Grayson Perry. MX Perry does not represent all transvestites! These dressing services cater for all kind of looks. I'm sure they'll have uniforms to evening dresses to ordinary daywear.

To all those who get sensitive about some transvestites going for a stereotypical ultra feminine look, that feminine feeling they will get might have to last them a month until they're able to dress again. And what's the point of dressing like a woman by wearing a t-shirt, trainers and shapeless jogging bottoms? If they want to feel their feminine side, something feminine kind of makes sense doesn't it?

Yabu. Why can he not dress how he chooses? I don't think it is up to you. It saddens me that you think your children shouldn't see him wearing different clothes as though it is shameful.

My XH was a cross dresser.
I understand perfectly why Katie goes out when DH is dressed up.
After our DCs left home XH dressed up more often: dress, wig, makeup, high heels.
When dressed up he took on feminine mannerisms, which I found irritating.

He also would wonder down the garden in a dress, wig and full makeup, sit in the house with the curtains open, sit on the hotel balcony dressed up whilst on holiday.
It made me very edgy, thinking a neighbour or friend could knock on the door or come round to the back of the house.

He insisted on wearing american tan coloured stockings which made his legs look just like his mother's legs.
Luckily he liked long wigs as a short wig would have made him look like his mother.
Imagine having sex with someone who greatly resembles your MIL.

We did go to cross dressing events and met some interesting people.

A twenty stone lorry driver wearing an ball gown and drinking pints is an amusing sight and they know they are too.

Several of you say everyone should be able to wear whatever they want and yes, I agree, but funnily enough some of the event organisers got very upset and shirty if some of the guests failed to follow the dress code, which was ball gowns - hypocrites.

I was married for 30 years and I suppose what bothered me most about the cross dressing, was that it was the most important thing in his life.
It was far more important than me.

It always came first. Holidays were planned around Mardi gras.
Cottages were booked for their seclusion.
It did seem that CD was all he thought about.
We never went to the theatre or out for a meal, but did go to lots of CD events.
But then my XDH was very selfish in many ways.

Yes, ok, we should all be able to wear what we like, but there's no way I would want to have a DH who wore a dickie bow all the time or a shell suit or a dress.

Katie, only you can decide how to proceed.
Best wishes to you and DH.

Having only read the opening post I don't think anyone is being unreasonable here.

Seems like you're just trying to find a comfortable place with each other and each others needs.

It sounds like your worried he is transsexual as opposed to transvestite. Have you asked him? Would that be a problem if he were?

FloraFox - gaslighting? Really? You're kidding, right? The OP has made her DH repress part of who he is for 20 years because of her own (unexamined and unintentional) prejudices, her own shame in who he is. He had gone along with it, been living as someone he is not, denied an intrinsic part of himself for her.

But the time has come for him that he isn't prepared to do that any more. Good for him, he should have pushed back years ago.

If the OP wasn't prepared to accept this side of him, to truly accept who he is and to love him unconditionally, she should have cut him loose right at the offset.

He is the one who has been treated cruelly here, not her.

Annie: Op was already married to him and had children when she found out, so cutting him loose would have had consequences.

Maybe 20 years ago DH wasn't ready to live publicly as a cross dresser.
Maybe he didn't want to push back and loose his family.

I think you are being very harsh to the OP.

My husband cross-dresses. I've never seen it as a big deal. It's just something he likes to do. He has become an expert in makeup and gives me advice, which I ignore because I'm less interested in such things than he is. I don't particularly like the look of him when he does it, but it makes him happy and I honestly don't see it as a problem. I like the fact that he has the courage to do something unconventional - very conventional people make me nervous.