To NOT want my husband to have a makeover and dress as a woman?

[Katie4u]

I have known about my husband's need to dress as a woman for almost 20 years. I came home unexpectedly one day to find him wearing my clothes. I was shocked and quite frightened. He explained that this was something he had been doing in secret since he was a little boy. Me being me, I felt sorry for him. We spoke about it for quite a while - I couldn't shut him up - I tried to understand him, but it became clear to me that this wasn't something that was going to go away. I told him that I didn't want to be part of it, that our children mustn't ever see him or know about it and he has been true to his word. There have been times when he has asked if he could dress and be with me and I must confess that, in bed, he was a lot more passionate making love to me dressed in my undies than he was when he was naked ... he's not gay! Now that our kids have flown the nest, he has had more opportunity and is taking more risks. He wants to know how good he would look with a professional makeover and he has found a place where he can go to do this. I have said no. I'm frightened where tis might lead? Am I being unreasonable?!

[Caitlin17]

Orlando Woolf you're right, it's very far from being the end of the world, but I think most of us might need help to deal with it.

[Thants]

I don't think I would make a judgement about you.
And personally I think Andrew (in the blog I linked) looks hot.

[paxtecum]

Shame that Andrew is into Black Magic (occult) not choccies!

I think it is part of our survival instinct to instantly judge people when first meeting them.
I annoy myself by doing it, but it is a natural instinct.

[OrlandoWoolf]

"At the risk of being even more shallow, most ordinary blokes look terrible in a dress, so why wear one?"

You should probably ask a crossdresser that question.

[Grennie]

I have been with my DP for 22 years. I think lots of women make far too many accommodations to keep a marriage together. OP's DP doesn't seem to be making any accommodations.

[Worried3]

OP YANBU, in my opinion. I actually don't think there is a right or a wrong here.

Your DH may not be able to help his need to cross dress, and should be free to do whatever he wants. BUT if you don't want to be a part of it, then I think he should respect that and he doesn't have any more right to make you unhappy by forcing this on you, than you have to force him to stop.

BTW- I don't think the OP forced him into suppressing this for the last 20 years. She stated the terms on which she could tolerate the secret he kept from her- he chose to stay on those terms. He could have refused. And it seems like the OP has tolerated it to some extent- going out so he could cross dress without her there, making love to him while he was wearing her underwear and so on. I don't think that's entirely "forcing him to hide this aspect of himself".

To those posters saying "well I don't have a problem with it"- that's fine, but the poster does feel uncomfortable with it and has said that she finds it a turn off. She can try and work through that, if she wants to. If she cannot overcome her feelings, then I don't think there is any shame in that.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this, and I would find it a complete turn off from a sexual point of view. I also would not like the fact that he wanted to go out dressed as a woman and be chatted up by men (even if it was only for the attention)- just as I wouldn't be happy if he was thrilled to be going out to bars and chatting up women "just to enjoy the flirting" while dressed as a man- even if he had no intention of taking it further.

OP, I think you need to have a careful think about what you can live with and what is a deal breaker for you. You need to ask your husband to do the same. Then you need to sit down and have a discussion with your husband regarding some common ground, if there is any, and where you go from here.

[Caitlin17]

Well Thants aside from the fact I'd never describe anyone as "hot" Andrew is rather beautiful. He struck me as being androgynous and beautiful in the way say Johnny Depp, or Tilda Swinton are or before they became fat and bald, Adam Ant and Boy George were.

I see from his blog that he mentions adrogyny as something very important to him.

A lot of his clothes are also either stage wear or stagey, explosions in the dressing up box ( a look which I wholeheartedly approve of on either sex). Keeping his arms bare also works, there are firm, masculine, heavily tattooed arms which contrast with the feminine clothes.

I note he refers to femininity in his blog, so possibility he wouldn't agree with you that dresses are not feminine.
I

[FloraFox]

Annie it seems like they did reach a compromise. The OP asked him not to involve her and gave him space to dress up when she was out. He seems to have pushed this further including having sex while wearing her underwear and now involving her in his makeover. That's why I called it gaslighting - the creeping erosion of the compromise the OP was willing to accept. She is worried about where this might lead which is not surprising given that her husband has not respected the compromise they reached.

This is only cruelty and repression if the OP puts her boundaries second to her husband's.

[crispsanddips]

Sorry, I have not read the entire thread so hope this isnt repetitive at all, or breaks into an ongoing conversation.

It is interesting how it seems "wrong" for men to dress in "women's clothes" whereas society allows women to dress in "mens clothes" I.e. trousers, the trend for womens underwear to be shaped similar to boxers (I remember this as a trend when I was at school. All the girls were going mad for 'girls boxers' from Topshop)

The clothes we should wear are decided by society. Of course, back in the day, the difference in mens and womens clothing was more determined. Remember the fight for women to wear trousers! And now it is fashionable and "cool" to appear androgynous.

Just trying to say that clothes are clothes :) if a personality changes, that is a different problem! You say your dh is a good man. Well, a good man can wear a skirt! Just like a good woman can wear trousers!

Mumsnet folk like to say colours are for everyone, pink for girls and blue for boys is just gender segregation. Isnt this a similar example, just for clothes?

[TiggyD]

The compromise they agreed on was from 20 years ago. People change. Have you stuck to everything you decided to do 20 years ago?

[FloraFox]

crisps the reason why women wear "men's clothes" is that they are practical and comfortable unlike a lot of women's clothes that are designed for the male gaze rather than the comfort of the wearer (a strip of lace between the bum cheeks? no thanks). The women who broke down those barriers for us were derided by society at the time. But women don't really dress in men's clothes. I never see women at work wearing a shirt and tie. I liked wearing a tie at school and I like the look but it would be more than "just clothes" for me to wear one now. Women who really do dress in a way that is gender non-conforming still face disapproval and judgement, called ugly dykes etc.

The fashion in men's clothes has been more androgynous in the past than it is at the moment (e.g. 1970s) and no doubt will be more so again at some point in the future. I married a man in a skirt and he looked damn fine in it. If men want to wear skirts, dresses, makeup, nail polish, whatever, great, I'm all for gender non-conformity. It's a different thing though when you ask a partner to accept something they don't want. People obviously make accommodations for their partners. I've asked my DH not to buy Jeremy Clarkson jeans or red trousers and he's asked me not to wear military style jackets that make me look like a Russian shot putter. That's just clothes. Passing yourself off as a member of the opposite sex is not just clothes.

[FloraFox]

Tiggy it depends what it is. If something is a deal breaker, I don't think it matters how long it is has been. DH and I agreed a compromise on something 20 years ago and it is just as important now as it was then. It hasn't always been easy but that's how relationships are.

If the OP's DH is saying "I thought I could accept that but actually I can't" that's one thing. It doesn't sound like that though. It sounds like he's pushing little by little to get her to accept more and more while downplaying or denying what he's doing.

[Worried3]

TiggyD- yes it was a compromise made 20 years ago. However, 1 party cannot just say "well i'm not sticking to the deal anymore" without there being any problems, can they?

[OrlandoWoolf]

I have no doubt he will go to a dressing service anyway - regardless of what his wife thinks.

That's the way this works. Secrecy, denial but compulsion. There are many men from all walks of life who do this. And there is a market for it. Some partners know and some don't know.

Why do some men want to do this? A good question. Sometimes sexual, sometimes a fantasy and sometimes because they are so restricted in what they wear and their lives that they want to escape to a different life.

We all find ways of escaping. Hobbies, TV, MN, shopping. Some men need this to unwind and destress.

And grennie - you said he has a choice about whether to get dressed up in female clothes or not because he is an adult. No, he doesn't. It does not work like that.

[theoriginalandbestrookie]

People do change over 20 years - they get older and generally more conformist. I agree with florafox - DH is pushing the boundaries on their agreement and seems to be doing it with little concern for the OP.

Paxtecum's story is really sad - she tried to support her DH, but she was the only one giving, needing, supporting in the relationship.

[Katie4u]

Dear all, thank you so much for your input and advice. I have been encouraged to try to understand him more and we are talking. My sense is that this is a lot more serious than I was led to believe. His tongue has been loosened, this is a lot more developed I him than I thought and he seems he wants to unburden his soul. Turns out he is on Facebook as a 'woman' and he has been socialising online as a woman, posting pictures and all the rest. He loves it when guys add him as a friend and 'chat' to him as if he was a woman. I asked him why he would be thrilled to be picked up in a bar by a guy and he told me that he never fancied guys until one told him how lovely he looked. He says that something in him flipped and he described how it was their affirmation of him as a woman that turned him on to them. Of course they don't know he's a man! I told him he ought to think about what a guy could do to him if they came onto him and found out he was a man. The thought of that terrifies me, but he thinks I am overreacting! When I asked him if he wanted to simply dress as a woman or BE a woman and he went quiet. Then he said he didn't know which wasn't what I wanted to hear. He then told me having this makeover and socialising in public as a woman was an important test. I was stunned. What sort of test? I couldn't go on, my mind was in a whirl. Is this a test to see if he could actually be a woman? He hadn't answered my question, did he genuinely not know or was he scared to tell me! I really don't know what to do but I have told him I wanted us to get professional help. He wants to wait until after this 'test'. This is a nightmare, it feels as though Pandora's box has been opened!

[paxtecum]

Katie: Thank you for the update.
I feel for both of you.
Please remember that it is not your duty to stay and support him if YOU don't want too.

He is looking forward to a life that he really wants to have, whether it is dressing as a woman or becoming a woman.
But for you it is a nightmare.
Don't sacrifice yourself for him.

Best wishes to both of you.

[OliviaBenson]

Gosh, it's all on his terms isn't it? I feel for you op, it's not something I'd be comfortable with.

An important test for what? If it works well, then what is next? I think you should have councilling but alone to talk things through.

[OrlandoWoolf]

If that's what he wants, then chances are very likely that this happen. Not many couples survive such an event - but some do.

You don't have to. It's likely that a lot of stuff has been bottled up and now it's all coming out.

Tough times ahead.

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

Run fast, run far.

[SugarMiceInTheRain]

I wouldn't be comfortable with that. Sounds like he wants to take it further, quite a bit further probably if he went quiet when asked if he wanted to actually be a woman. You are well within your rights to think you can't personally keep supporting him in this.

[EverybodysStressyEyed]

He is living a life without you. And that is the life he wants. Do you think he wants to go out on the town dressed as a woman with his wife? Sounds like he wants to go out as a single woman tbh.

I think you need to have a conversation with him about how he sees your marriage progressing if he continues on this path of his. Please don't feel your role is to support his choices. You have the right to make choices too.

[LadyHarrietdeSpook]

Oh gosh, you are not obliged to be a bystander on this journey he's taking. Think about what you want and what's right for you.

[ocelot41]

Wow Katie that's a hell of a bombshell. I can't imagine what you must be going through right now. Please, get some professional support for yourself, and talk to your DH about the same for him (individually or together). Trans people are at a very high risk of suicide, and it sounds like your end is far from peachy too. Please don't try and get through this alone - this is VERY big stuff indeed. HUG.