To NOT want my husband to have a makeover and dress as a woman?

[Katie4u]

I have known about my husband's need to dress as a woman for almost 20 years. I came home unexpectedly one day to find him wearing my clothes. I was shocked and quite frightened. He explained that this was something he had been doing in secret since he was a little boy. Me being me, I felt sorry for him. We spoke about it for quite a while - I couldn't shut him up - I tried to understand him, but it became clear to me that this wasn't something that was going to go away. I told him that I didn't want to be part of it, that our children mustn't ever see him or know about it and he has been true to his word. There have been times when he has asked if he could dress and be with me and I must confess that, in bed, he was a lot more passionate making love to me dressed in my undies than he was when he was naked ... he's not gay! Now that our kids have flown the nest, he has had more opportunity and is taking more risks. He wants to know how good he would look with a professional makeover and he has found a place where he can go to do this. I have said no. I'm frightened where tis might lead? Am I being unreasonable?!

Don't you think in a relationship that each partner should support each other? And that that expectation should be there?

I'm sure there are people out there who do have issues that they never told their OH before starting a relationship. It could be drug issues, MH issues, sexual desires, fetishes - loads of things.

Of course he has lied to her. If you understood trans issues, you would get that. He has had a relationship with her and they have had children. She does not have to accept it. And pax is right - some crossdressers can take it to an extreme whilst others need to do it occasionally.

But the thing you need to understand is - he cannot help it or stop it. Just like any person who has a compulsion.

So the choice is - accommodate it, leave or ask him to stop. But he won't - it will carry on in secret.

I suppose it comes down to how much your partner means to you. And if you love them.

Of course, you could say - if he loved her, he would stop. I bet he'd love to but he can't. That's what trans stuff is like. You have no control.

I wonder how many women would be able to give up women's clothes for a month? No heels. No clothes that show any figure. Men's jeans, shirts, coats etc. No make-up. Short hair. It would drive most of the women I know potty after a week.

Imagine 20 years...

Tiggy is right about obsessive. How far do you go to accommodate it - even if it makes you feel uncomfortable?

And I think some people might be getting a bit hung up on being approached by a man. I think it just means he would be pleased that he passed.

But the OP does not have to accept it. No one does.

Tiggy is right about obsessive. But the point I was making is that TVs are usually obsessive in the SHORT term. While coming to terms with it.

Looking at your last op I think there is more to this than the cross dressing

You say he wants to join a club where they would go out to the theatre etc but he never goes out to the theatre etc with you.

Taking the cross dressing out of the equation, has your relationship gone a bit mundane in other areas?

It sounds like cross dressing fulfils his needs but do you have anything in your life that fulfils yours?

Tiggy: Many, many women would be very happy to give up women's clothes and all that goes with them: heels, makeup.
Many women wear all that reluctantly because it is expected of them.

I am curious what your experiences of cross dressers are, but apologise if that is an inappropriate question.

I was told off on the 'recreational cocaine' thread when I asked a poster a similiar question.

My XH was obssessive about CD all the time and wanted more experiences as the years progressed.

EverybodysStressyEyed: I think we all hope and expect that when our children have left home we have time to spend and enjoy with our partners, picking up again from before DC time.
We don't expect to be living seperate lives under the same roof, each finding something different to fulfil our lives.

Well that's kind of what I meant. My parents have their own hobbies but they also spend a lot of time doing things together. They have found a balance that suits them.

For op - her dh seems to have a hobby he wants to pursue at the cost of their time together. It's a hobby she isn't welcome to join in or wants to join in. So for me it is an issue of the impact of his hobby on their relationship, not what the actual hobby is.

OP, I think if you are actually finding this a turn off and feeling uncomfortable already then the escalation may be more than you can accept.

I know lots of women have no problem with this, I wasn't one of them.

With a male friend- no problem. In my relationship- a turn off for me. That's a very personal view though- I tried to be the cool partner because I loved my ex but it didn't work- cross dressing is a turn off for me.

However, if you separate he may well find a partner who enjoys this aspect of his personality. But if its not for you then don't feel guilty. Good luck with it all.

Of course he has control over it. He is an adult, he doesn't have to dress up as a woman, but he wants to.

Some woman have no problem with this and think, well it is just clothes. Other women have a major issue with this.

I think only you can decide how you feel about this. But your feelings matter. You don't have to accept something you are not happy with. You matter too.

I feel quite sad for you all. Well worth joining the support groups, I'm sure there are a lot of women who feel like you but there are others who have accepted that aspect of their partner, a friend of a friend husband now lives full time as a woman, they are still in love and in a relationship but he feels more comfortable living as a woman. Your kids are adults, as it's been hidden so much it might come as a shock but there is nothing to be ashamed about. I feel so sad for your husband having to squash a big part of how he feels down, like it's a dirty secret. If I found out my dad cross dresses I would be shocked but I would also want him to be happy, be that in trousers or a skirt. Who cares what neighbours think if he wants to go out in women's clothes, life is too short to worry about what others might or might not think

Letit: OP may not be worried about what neighbours may think.
The fact is that she doesn't like it.

I have great admiration for your friend of a friend.
I also have great admiration for Foster Carers.
But I couldn't foster and I couldn't live with a man who dressed as a woman all the time.

I don't know anyone who cross dresses so this is simply asking for information.

I take the point women have far greater choice than men and on the whole men's clothes are less interesting ( although as I'm someone who hates jeans and casual clothes I do think being able to wear a really well cut bespoke suit would be lovely)

Is the wanting to wear women's clothes a reaction to the general drabness of men's clothes or is it the fact it is "women's clothes"

If the former wouldn't the Eddie Izzard/Laurence Llewellyn Bowen/Prince/ Goth style of frock coats, flouncy shirts, silk and velvet, or Jean-Paul Gaultier kilts that aren't just tartan do the trick?

If it's the latter and it's important the clothes are women's rather than flamboyant then I'm finding it less easy to understand.

I mentioned Grayson Perry. I think he's a tremendously talented artist. His recent channel 4 documentary about class and culture was fab and he came across as funny, warm, empathetic and sympathetic. I don't understand his cross dressing but as what he wears is like nothing anyone would wear in real life it seems more like dressing up than a need to wear
clothes made for women.

Oh for goodness sake, FloraFox, you've seen me on the feminist boards, you know I don't for one minute think that women should be handmaidens or subservient in a relationship. Nor do I think they should just accept anything.

BUT, not putting up with that with they are not comfortable should take the form of either having a discussion with their partner and coming to a compromise which is acceptable to both of them, or ending the relationship. Not telling their husband to repress an important part of himself if he wishes to remain in the relationship. You would, I'm sure, find it completely unacceptable if the roles were reversed and it was a man laying down the rules of what was and wasn't acceptable to him in terms of his wife's behaviour.

Yes, he should have told her before they entered into a long-term commitment, and yes, certainly he should have told her before they had a child together. We don't know his reasons for not telling her, but shame probably had a lot to do with it. I agree with you 100% that he should have told her and was wrong not to. However, that was 20 years ago, and two wrongs don't make a right. She is equally wrong to tell him he can't behave in a certain way. If she wasn't prepared to accept this side of him, she should have ended the relationship 20 years ago, child or no child.

And he should have ended the relationship instead of accepting her cruel treatment of him by forcing him to keep it repressed.

To sum up the original question, is the OP unreasonable to not want her husband to wear dresses? In my opinion, yes, but that's my opinion. She is entitled to her own.

What she is not entitled to do, however, is tell him he can't do it. He is just as entitled to live his own life and pursue his own interests as she is.

So IMO her choice is either to accept him as he is or end the relationship. She can't continue to force him to be someone he isn't, just to placate her own sensibilities.

Letitsnow you are referring to someone who is dealing with gender issues and is happier living as a woman. That's a different matter from men who occasionally want to cross dressing. I don't think that's what OP's situation is although she's worried that is where it might lead.

The thing is it really is just clothes. Imagine if your dp told you he didn't want you wearing trousers or flat shoes or having short hair? Just because we deem dresses to be feminine doesn't mean they intrinsically are.
What exactly about it upsets you? I would hope that other peoples bigoted opinions of your dp don't affect your opinion of him.

Thants, I suppose she finds it upsetting because a man wearing a dress is so outside the cultural norm it's not easy to work out why.

Clothes are not just clothes. They come with all sorts of social and cultural baggage. What you wear makes a statement about yourself. Even the "I'm happiest in old jeans and a t-shirt" brigade are making a statement (with the subject text I'm not shallow like you in the pretty dress? But maybe that's just me being paranoid)

If OH told me he wanted to cross dressing I'd be confused about why. Does that make me bigoted?

OP I have had a look at that Beaumont Society website and I suspect you really will find it a useful resource. I would wander over there if I were you. I don't think any of us who haven't dealt with this will know how we'd react if faced with it firsthand. The risk of giving terrible advice seems high- but I feel so much sympathy for you I felt I had to post.

But clothes can just be clothes. Putting ideology onto them is a choice. We can choose to reject how we are socialised.

One thing that struck me when you talked about sex being more passionate after he cross dressed, is that for some men, this is a sexual fetish. Dressing up in women's clothes turn them on. That for some men is why it couldn't be a flouncy men's coat or lacy men's top. For some it is the fact that it is women's clothes, that is the important aspect.

I couldn't accept this - it was something I quizzed DH on when we were getting serious, just to make sure that it wasn't something he was into.

I find it hard to explain why I would find it so upsetting in my own situation - I have no issues with other men doing it. I guess I'm not very secure in my own attractiveness and I do worry about others think, I respect social boundaries and norms, and I want to fit into society. I guess that makes me narrow minded and judgemental .

The OP found this out about her DH when she was pregnant - how more vulnerable could she have been? She thought they had reached a compromise - now he wants more. She's not the one breaking the deal, he is. Their deal as I see it was that his cross dressing was kept private, but she would facilitate it and allow him to do it in private.

Marriage is all about compromises. DH is off picking up his sports car with money that I would rather see in a pension plan. No one gets everything that they want, or if they do it's generally at the expense of the other partner. Last time I looked, society was not generally accepting of men dressed as women - perhaps it should be, but that's a different AIBU.

Thants that's a rather simplistic and not terribly realistic suggestion. It's also overlooking the person doing the cross dressing may be selecting the clothes because of the message they are sending.

As indeed are most people when they select what to wear.

A surprising amount of wives do find a way of accommodating it. That is why the Beaumont society can help as there are women who have been in a similar situation and no doubt have had the same reactions.

Marriages have often had to survive far worse things.

Thants: I accept your ideology, but the world we live in doesn't.

Maybe OP doesn't want to be gawped at by all and sundry if she is out with DH who is wearing dresses.

There is a famous transvestite on the Wirral, known as the Birkenhead Tranny.
He is famous because he is a big bloke, who looks like a bloke and dresses as a woman all the time.

I don't think he is mocked, but goodness you can't really miss him.

genderspastic.wordpress.com

This blog could be of use. It's written by Andrew O'neil. He is a heterosexual, transvestite stand up comedian. He is a talented and inspiring person and his wife is proud of who he is.

°Thants* I am a very shallow person. I care a lot about clothes. I have an idiosyncratic style, although I admit, nothing which would cause raised eyebrows(other than very occasionally on work team bonding casual days, I don't do casual, I wouldn't be seen dead in jeans and trainers)

If you met me you could choose to " reject how you are socialised" . I suspect you would make certain assumptions, most of which would be correct.

As I said I'm very shallow, what I wear is very important to me and I get a lot of compliments about my clothes.

At the risk of being even more shallow, most ordinary blokes look terrible in a dress, so why wear one?