So fed up with DP's ridiculous arguments!

[MsPuddleDuck]

NC for this. I am so, so fucking fucked off this morning after another argument with DP.

Over breakfast I reminded him (in a nice chatty way, just everyday stuff) we had to take something in for school fair hampers and he has various unopened bottles of whisky around (to do with a work project, we could never even get through them) so could he choose one to donate and take in. We have previously discussed and agreed on this. He takes DS to school so I explain the box for donations is in the classroom and can he take it in (otherwise we are entrusting very scatty, forgetful DS with a litre of spirits which might not even find its way out of his bag and end up being accessed by other DC - methinks it's better to get it directly to the box. AIBU about that as well out of interest.)

DP immediately kicked off that he can't go into the classroom because "the flow of kids going in is too much and I wouldn't be able to get through". This is bollocks, DS's classroom is just through the entrance door, and I and other parents go in regularly to do reading help with no prob whatsoever. It's just that DP has an aversion to going into school or talking to the teacher, which causes a lot of problems as anytime someone has to drop something off or speak to the teacher he kicks off, or I have to swap with him and he has to do nursery run (causing logistical probs to do with car) etc etc.

I argued with this for a bit saying of course he can go in, I do it all the time etc etc but he decides to put the whisky in a carrier bag and make DS take it. I dropped it as I didn't want a row and things calmed down.

10 mins later he remarks that DS has been doing well with new homework set by learning support teacher, who we saw at a recent meeting (he did go into school for this, so it's not that he's desperately phobic or anything). It suddenly popped into my head that we have stopped communicating with LS teacher using notes, as she has asked us to do, since we had a slight change of routine and DP now supervises homework instead of me. He never sends any notes so I said "Oh could you write Mrs X a little note then to say it's going OK".

He immediately kicks off! "Oh don't be silly, why does she need a note, obviously the homework is being done blah blah" I explained that I used to do this regularly and Mrs X asks us to do it and it is just a way of keeping in touch. More kicking off and arguing, claiming he "can't write a note because I don't know what to put". I was getting really wound up by this point and pointed out he's a bloody professor, an education professional of 20 years standing who deals with students and staff all the time and is in charge of vast amounts of routine communications so there is no way he can't do this.

Then he switches to huge huffy mode and snaps "RIGHT then! I WILL write a note!" and starts angrily scribbling on a post-it. By now it is a full-scale row with shouting :( and once he gets going he also starts denying what went on earlier in the argument e.g. "I never said I wouldn't do it!" Also I didn't want the shitty note written in anger to go to Mrs X, so I told him that, cue more stropping.

I hate this. We had a similar row at the weekend and after that I SWORE I would NOT shout in front of the DC no matter how much he wound me up. But I've done it again. I did apologise to both DC and assured DS it was completely our fault and we would sort out the Mrs X communications soon.

The thing is, before you tell me to LTB (and believe me today I very much fancy the idea of not living with him), and I know everyone says this, but he is OK generally. He's supportive, he shows no general signs of EA like trying to control what I do or who I see, he's not critical, he's not violent, he doesn't mess me around. We do get on, love each other (AFAIK!), and have a lot in common. He does a lot of housework and childcare (admittedly I have had to push to get him to understand how much needs doing, but he rises to the challenge) and he is able to make changes to himself. He willingly admits he's naturally lazy and would happily take a back seat while I do everything, but as he knows I won't accept that, he does do his share.

So why this crappy rubbish arguing when I ask him to do something? The thing that drives me INSANE the most is that he talks utter nonsense. He just makes up barefaced lies as excuses for why he can't do something - "I can't get through the flow of children" - wtaf? He then also lies to my face about what he just said 30 seconds ago.

It makes me so fucking cross and then what should have been a simple reminder or discussion turns into shouting. I know it takes two but I don't know how to handle it. It's like the only other option if I'm not going to argue, is just take all the bollocks lying down and go along with his ludicrous claims and excuses. He's always been like this and most of our arguments are not really about anything, they're just about the argument itself IYSWIM why he said this and I said that etc.

Invariably, he will later say he was wrong and apologise (which is something I suppose), but god forbid I try to remind him of this during an argument, he just fights back more.

Sorry this is so long, thanks if you read it. I think it has helped me calm down just to get it out.

no, most of those aren't fun in my book. They are dull and repetitive.

Personally I really look forward to an evening doing household admin and budgeting. I also really love making packed lunches every day, trying to keep on top of birthday/anniversary cards and responding to endless letters from school. My husband is giving me a new hoover for Christmas, I'm so excited

Dealing with household admin is shit though kinnane, and a lot of the rest involve a lot of dull logistics and admin.

E.g. Booking a holiday might seem fun. Choosing a holiday and anticipating it might be, but there is still drudgery and it sounds like that falls to the OP more often than not. Similarly social engagements might be fun but there are logistics and planning that underlie them. Individually they might be small things, but they add up.

It does sound like the OP's DH wants to avoid doing this sort of drudgery. Admitting he'd prefer to leave it to her is one thing but it isn't really fair to make it her responsibility to tell him what to do/get him to do it and then resent being told what to do. He might not realise this is what he's doing, but it does sound like this.

And in any normal household the conversation would have gone

"please can you drop the whisky into the classroom when you drop DS off, they asked us to do so"
"OK"

"LST reminded you that she needs a note from you"
"I don't have much to say, I will do one tomorrow" or "OK"

Not the childish avoidance tactics that the OPs DH is using. He is making it into a huge, dramatic row to try and stop you from asking him in future and to confuse the issue so that by the end of the argument you've forgotten what you asked him to do and are so desperate for the stupid row to be over that you would agree to anything.

I know this because my DH is a part master at it.

OK so your normal social engagement planning

"shall we have dinner wtih Joan and Bert". Nice
Look into restaurants. Nice
Phone Joan and Bert. Now getting dull
Phone restaurant. Dull
Think about logistics of babysitter. Dull
Book babysitter/persuade relatives. Dull and awkward
Think about how you're getting there. Dull
Book taxi. Dull
Make sure children are ready for bed and everything in place for babysitter. Dull
Get ready. Fun
Go out and enjoy self. Fun

Let me guess, in this scenario, OP, your DH would generally shy away from the dull steps and just get involved in choosing where to go and actually going ?

"school
household admin
managing budget
sorting out birthday presents
kids parties
booking holidays
social engagements

Surely most of these are fun to deal with and (not being harsh hopefully) but,....are there only confused four in your household."

Well if they're so much fucking fun, it would be outrageously unfair for the OP to do them all herself, thereby STEALING the wonderful opportunity to do them from her husband.

I can't believe that a parent who is REFUSING to communicate with his child's teacher AS REQUESTED about additional help the child is receiving with regard to their SPECIAL EDUCATIONAL NEEDS is being excused from actually fulfilling this most basic aspect of his responsibilities just because he is a man.

Refusing to write the note expressing to the teacher what he had just expressed to his wife (so no bullshite about nothing to say) is absolutely shocking parenting and letting his child down in a fucking huge way.

Kinnane I'm amazed you think it's fun.

For example between now and new year, DD aged 3 has been invited to 5 birthday parties. That's 5 x getting the invite to my computer desk without it going astray, 5 x emailing replies and thanks. 5 x going out shopping or shopping online to get suitable presents and cards, 5 x wrapping them and getting DD to scribble in the card. Oh and 5 x driving to and from and attending said parties. DP refuses point blank to go to kids' parties (other than his own kids and even then he's not keen) unless he absolutely has to, i.e. on ONE occasion when I was in hospital with newborn DC2.

Fun? FUN???

OK, maybe this would be fun - on planet Stepford - if it was the only admin I did all year. Or maybe if I didn't work, had both DC in school and had all day free, in which case I would accept it was a fair contribution.

But no - it will be a tiny, tiny proportion of the admin and organising I will do between now and new year, on top of my own paid work.

Or I could just not do it. DD would miss the parties and miss out on her social life, because DP would NOT do it. He probably wouldn't do it anyway, but he certainly wouldn't do it without constant nagging, which would kind of remove the point of me not doing it.

But, it still isn't all the OP's DH. In part he will be reacting to how she is interacting with him.

One thing would be to agree to delegate all the generic school stuff to him (since you've got the nursery to deal with). But that means that he will make his own judgements about the kinds of participation that are required in PTA events and how to do this. These may not be the decisions that you would make. And also letting him decide when a note about homework is required. And it means him dealing with the consequences when he hasn't done something.

MrsPuddleDuck, I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between all the advice/comments you have been given to-day. You sound like you have a pretty good life. Enjoy it!
Lots of good wishes.

Have you tried sitting down with him, when not arguing about specific stuff, and pointing out how he is behaving, and that it is not acceptable

Did you miss the point where the OP told us that she shouts in front of the children?

As an adult he should expect to decide what is acceptable in relation to his reaction to being micro managed.

ChristmasCareerist, yes you're right. But the thing is Joan and Bert - I mean Joan - sends all the texts and emails about this kind if thing to me anyway doesn't she? :o So even if I wanted DP to do them, I'd have to do the work of being the go-between.

The refusing to do birthday parties thing is not on. Why is it OK for you to do it and not him? I presume you've never said, 'oh I love planning for and ferrying the children to birthday parties; I wish there was more opportunity for me to do it'. Thought not. Or, it might be OK if he'd agreed that he would take on all responsibility for scouts stuff (for example). I'd agree to birthday parties if it never meant driving miles out into the countryside in the dark to places I've never been to get wet and muddy.

That's a much bigger deal than a bottle for the PTA and the details of when a note should be written to school.

"And it means him dealing with the consequences when he hasn't done something."

Given the consequence of not bothering your lazy hole to keep in touch with a SEN teacher about remedial work being done with your child could be that your child is permanently disadvantaged at school, that's a pretty big risk to take, isn't it?

This man has made it clear to the OP that without nagging HE WILL DO NOTHING. That he is happy for her to do everything and will not contribute unless nagged.

So you are suggesting that she just lets him fuck up his own child (with SEN)'s education because he doesn't see why he should lower himself to writing a note unless it meets his personal standard of significance?

Wow, amazing advice.

Arbitrary it has been explained quite a few times that the LS teacher asked us to send notes.

No, OP. You can just reply to Joan copying payout DH in saying, 'sounds great. DH is going to sort it all out on our end, so please liaise with him'.

"Did you miss the point where the OP told us that she shouts in front of the children?"

Did you miss the bit where she said that the shouting (in front of the children) was started by him?

Copying DH in. Not payout.

Wow, caruthers, you must be some sort of saint if you've never shouted at/had words with your DH in front of the children. Or you're lying. Or you are fortunate enough to be married to someone that doesn't argue about anything and everything just for the sake of it.

I think the OPs children will probably manage to come through the experience of their parents having a bit of a shout at each other once in a while unscathed.

I have had discussions (actual discussions not just arguments) with him about the parties thing. He won't do it unless MASSIVELY pressured. His excuse is that he hates it.

Did she specifically ask you to send notes every night or every time you do the homework? It may be that your DH has interpreted the send notes request differently from you. That doesn't automatically make him wrong,

I'm not convinced that sending any particular note will screw up the child's education, especially when the husband here has attended meetings about the issue and is doing the homework with the child. That's just hyperbolic, doomsmongering.

Agree join.

Once you have children your little foibles about finding certain things uncomfortable no l

Has he agreed to take on an equally shitty task to make up for the fact that he hates birthday parties? He should.

He doesn't get to simply opt out of the bits of family life he doesn't like. You can negotiate the crappy bits between you, but it all has it be done and you shouldn't be the default doer, OP.

Did you miss the bit where she said that the shouting (in front of the children) was started by him

She didn't write that at all.
He snapped after being harangued and so she shouted at him again in front of the children.
It smacks of do as you are told my way or I will shout.

No longer impact solely on you.

Arbitrary, I said in the OP:
"we had a slight change of routine and DP now supervises homework instead of me. He never sends any notes"

He doesn't do it at all, he doesn't just do it "his way". He doesn't do it because he doesn't listen to the LS teacher / read notes from her / take any notice of me when I tell him about it. Except today when he reacted badly instead of just forgetting/ignoring.

Wow, caruthers, you must be some sort of saint if you've never shouted at/had words with your DH in front of the children. Or you're lying. Or you are fortunate enough to be married to someone that doesn't argue about anything and everything just for the sake of it

I don't shout at my wife.
If you think that shouting at your other half is normal that's your perspective.