Dating an illegal immigrant

[Holamum]

Hi there,

This is a really sensitive topic and hope you will treat it as such too. Sorry it's long!!

Basically, my family are very religious and strict and wanted me to have an arranged marriage. I got educated, financially independent, rebelled and married someone outside the religion for love for which my parents disowned me. I had 2 children with my ex, but the relationship broke down, my ex went bankrupt and I lost my job and other things happened so that I basically had no choice but to grovel and return to my parents.

My parents don't want me and the children living with them forever and told me that I need to remarry. But they said they would disown me again if I chose my own partner (I think it's crazy!) so they found me a guy from the mosque as a potential husband (going to call him 'the guy') for an arranged marriage. We have been dating to see if we like each other, and it has been going well and I've actually fallen for him.

I knew the guy was from abroad but assumed he was on a visa or something because he works and seems settled. Anyway, he has proposed marriage to me, and after I accepted (saying I still wanted to be engaged for 1-2 years so we know each other better) he dropped the bombshell that he's an illegal immigrant. I was (still am) very scared about what that could mean for me and the kids. The guy calmed me down, reassuring me that it will be fine, and that his only crime is trying to make a better life for himself, and that he really wants to settle down with me and be a father to my kids.

I was still worried so I got some legal advice and the solicitor advised that he can't marry me in the UK anyway, because he's illegal. He would have to go back to his home country, and either I bring him over on a fiance visa or we live in his home country (which I would do as long as my ex allows my kids to emigrate).

I told the guy that I spoke to a solicitor and told him what they advised me. The guy became very upset with me and said that his friends had managed to get married without going back to their home country - he gave me a few examples and said I shouldn't listen to the solicitor. He got really moody and demanded that he wasn't going to go back to his home country. The guy reminded me how he had accepted the fact I had kids, and had accepted that I made mistakes of dishonouring my family (by marrying for choice outside the religion 1st time round) and that he wasn't going to care about what people in the community gossiped about him for marrying me. He said he isn't going to talk to me until next week now because I had upset him with the suggestion that he go back to his home country.

Am I being unreasonable? What shall I do?

I second the chorus of LTB!! We got married in the uk in 2010 but both me and dh needed ukba approval. From the sounds of things this has been scrapped, in which case there may be a loophole? But him essentially implying you should be grateful for the fact that he's willing to accept 'used goods' would be a huge red flag for me. I know it's tough to go against the cultural norms but sometimes we have to accept that our parents don't know best! A friend of mine (qualified doctor) was forced to marry a man who she had nothing in common with (she had met him once and he was a warehouse shelf stacker), essentially for a visa. The marriage broke down within a year. Her parents reasoning was that anyone from the same community was preferable regardless of their compatibility. Sometimes parents don't have your best interests at heart, especially if they're concerned about their standing in the community!

I know I said Pakistani to European woman yh I get that.

It is mainly men that do it as they come over on student visas then over stay. Due to cultural beliefs its a little harder for ladies to get out like them.

I wasnt asking if you spoke urdu.
I was asking op which I believe means original poster?

Did you not see the go home posters?

isitme you know a lot about immigration law? Not from your posts... And I guarantee that ballinacup and I know more...

I get so annoyed by the posters coming on threads and spouting complete rubbish about illegal marriages, prosecution for knowing an illegal immigrant etc as soon as illegal immigration is mentioned.

I also agree with dontmindifido
Regardless of what he is or isn't hes an absolute bastard.

Fine
Advise her as you please.
Just trying to help some one in a fucked up situation.

if she told her family what I put down it might help them see differently and that's why I put that but nope you wouldn't leave it
This isn't about who knows more. Its about someone being blackmailed into marrying a stupid bastard.

Op

Run for the hills. Instead of investigating ways to marry this man, investigate benefits etc and ways to get out of your parents' place!

OP - putting aside the other issues; can you imagine what it would be like if you married this man? A man who thinks his mates are more likely to understand the law on immigration over a solicitor specalising in this area of law? I can see he'd be the sort to "know better" than professionals on everything because someone else told him differently.

The sort of person who will have a go at fixing their own boiler/car/dishwasher because it can't really need XYZ/be that expensive. Who misses flights because his friend told him "you've got 20 minutes after they call final boarding". The sort of person who only puts down one school choice (which is 2 miles from their house and normally only gives places to children living 0.4miles away) and truely believes by not giving another option the council will have to give them a place at that school. The sort of person who really thinks rules don't apply to them in the same way they apply to everyone else, the sort of person who doesn't listen to anything that doesn't fit with their world view.

We've all met people like this, they are knobbers and best to be avoided.

But isitme1 by giving dodgy advice you're only scaring the OP witless about something that categorically will not happen.

And what if someone were to come on this thread who is dating an illegal immigrant without the overtones of abuse? If they took your advice as rote, they could end a relationship for no reason at all.

If your advice really did come from a good place then fair enough, but it's still not a great idea to state you're an expert when you're not.

Holamum I can't say I have experienced your situation but I do know of similar, with a friend of a friend.

She had an arranged marriage, aged 16 to guy of 42 because her parents felt this was the right thing to do. Sadly the marriage was not happy, he was emotionally and physically violent and he threw her out when she was 20.
He said she was a useless, disrespectful wife who would not bear him children.

Her parents did not want her back as they felt she was bringing dishonour on them.

Her husband divorced her, and her parents grudgingly took her back aged 21.

Six months later, they arranged another marriage for her. That went pretty much the same way after three years.

Repeat twice more....

I haven't seen her in years so I don't know what the current situation is. I know that she did meet someone she liked, not 'arranged' by her parents and that caused a lot of problems. Whether they're still together I don't know. I do know that every step of the way she was worried about being disowned and losing her family.

If the relationship with your ex is still pretty good then perhaps heading towards where he is, and rebuilding your life is the way forward. With regard to your parents, I have no answers unfortunately. I fully appreciate they have deep religious beliefs, but they should be able to understand that your safety and wellbeing, and that of their GCs is paramount.

"I feel like an idiot for being so blind!! It is a real disappointment, but the kids have to come first."

My love, you are no fool, you are not an idiot.

An idiot is someone like me who ended up with a man like this for 10 years. Although not as nasty so upfront, and not illegal.

This bloke is worse IMVHO.

When I got out, after the 10 years and a son, I felt the most stupid person that ever lived. I lost my entire life and family as a fall out, but I'm happier, healthier and stronger than I have ever been in my life.

I only have my adorable DS, you have 2 DC, so enjoy them and be the best mum to them you can be and protect them from those that don't want their happiness (your family and this bloke)

You can do this.

Just end the engagement and take each step as it comes. If you are threatened, call the police. No matter who threatens you.

Please stay close to us here love? we're here to help, to listen and to hold hands if you need it.

Your parents are happy to sell you and your children to the first lowlife chancer they met. They don't give a toss about your happiness or your future. Sorry, but they are disgusting.

The only person who has your best interests at heart is YOU. I agree that you need to be brave here (and I'm aware of how easy that is for me to say, and how hard for you to do) and get yourself out of this whole toxic set-up and into a place of your own. Your independence is the most precious thing you have, and you are already extraordinary for having achieved it once when all the odds were stacked against you. You CAN do it again.

What's your relationship with your ex like? Are you friends?

Hissy is right. You're not an idiot. Please don't be hard on yourself. I think everyone who has posted agrees that, even ignoring his immigration status, this does not sound like a man who values you and your children as you should be valued and is willing to properly invest in your relationship.

ballinacup thank you. That is exactly what I was going to say.

You had no reason not to take him at face value. He was doing all the right things and saying all the right things. Its only now when his immigration status has become clear and his reaction to you getting advice than you've begun to see the other side of him.

You are not an idiot op please don't think like that. You have been brave to ask for advice and now that you see things clearly trying to do something about it.

I have changed my name for this.

My first marriage was to an illegal. At the time I did not know he was illegal. Had I known I would not have married him. He worked, paid taxes at one point he even claimed benefits. Later obviously found out this was all because of false papers.

He told me he was here on a visa. Who was I to question any different. Yes I know, naïve or what. He even went through the palaver of filling in immigration papers to get leave to remain after we were married for a couple of years.

Home office automatically asked a lot of questions, like who the hell he was. Eventually he was given his deportation papers.. Like an idiot I helped fight and keep him in the country, so he could be a dad to his children.

He sucked me in. The relationship was at times, turbulent. I put it all down to the stress that we were under. One month after he had been given permission to stay he battered me... He only wanted me for the papers. The kid were a bonus. He knew if he left I would let home office know, so he chose violence and intimidation to scare me. And boy did it scare me. He threatened to take my children back to his country if I ever told.

What I am saying is do not trust this illegal person. He is telling you things you want to hear so that you will trust him. I am not tarring all illegal with the same brush. Some, would do whatever it took if they really wanted to be with you, including return to their own country and have a long distance relationship. This man doesn't sound like he would do any of that, because all he sees in you is papers. Becaue of the family situation, he is using this as an excuse to wear you down to marry him. Don't be fooled.

There are a few pplaces that offer support and advice with regards to arranged married Karmanirvana.. THe foreign and commonwealth office also have a unit, forced marriage unit (fmu)

He sounds like a twat the way he behaved after you spoke to a solicitor.

And would you really take your kids to move to another country away from their father? Unless your Ex is abusive in some way I think you are being very unfair to both your children and your ex.

Sounds like you are totally blinded and brainwashed by your parents and this guy.

Don't do it.
He has no regard for others opinions nor for law.

He will not treat you well as he already sees you as a burden beneath him. If you do not have his respect the relationship will be increasingly unequal as he will feel he has certain rights over you as compensation for taking you on. Unfortunately as he has no regard for anyone elses opinion those rights he feels he has may lead to unlawful actions.

Consequently he will not treat you children well either as they are physical proof of your unequal status in his eyes.

No good will come of it at all.

Your parents seem to see you as a shameful secret to be offloaded to anyone who will have you. They have their position to think of and are putting that above your needs I am afraid.

I wish you well in resolving this. The potential husband will never see your point of view, your parents may in time but don't let them railroad you into something you and your children will be deeply unhappy with just to ease their consciences.

fortunately you have found out what he is like in time.

to the hills, very fast.

Hissy, please, please do not think of yourelf as an idiot. It is easy for us to see what is happening form the great luxury of perspective and distance, and anyway, you knew there was sopmething not right, you acted on it and posted for advice.

Also do not think of yourself as an idiot, because you need to place a higher value on yourself. You are you - and valuable in your own right. Your parents may have strong expectations of you, and that must be an incredible burden, but your life is lived by you, for you - your life is not in service to another.

So, let him not speak to you for a week, and use the time to plan your independence. If you feel vulnerable, or that your parents will evict you, you can even talk to Women's Aid. Just as a precaution, I would keep all your documents and your passport safe in a place only you can access. Find all the information you will need should your parents evict you - your council ill have to house you with kids, although emergency accommodation can be ....not exactly five star! Bed and breakfast in a small room, for example. But the point is it is temporary. Go down to your council housing office and get al the info - put yourself on the housing list if possible.

Sorry - what Hissy said, not 'Hissy'.

His reaction made me wonder if he already had a wife in his home country.

Thanks.

I thought it was odd that he was adament that he didn't want to go back to his home country. He tried to claim asylum under article 8 and failed and went awol. He's not really being perscuted in his home country.

The shocking thing is that he works for a big company (hence why I thought it was legit). Anyway, that's none of my business.

My parents did know he was illegal but are saying that was my best chance as no one will have me (I would rather be single). They have also known him for years.

I'm jut glad I'm getting out of it before I got too involved.

Good for you Holamum. It actually says quite a lot about your parents that they would rather palm you off with someone they know who is illegal who may potentially have dodgy motives, just to preserve the family honour. You will do so much better for yourself living and loving on your own terms. Good luck.

Try ringing Karma Nirvana - they give good and knowledgeable advice about this sort of thing.