to think that this article is just another way to sneer at sahms? Motherism?

[usuallyright]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/18/sorry-but-being-a-mother-is-not-the-most-important-job-in-the-world

Whilst I agree with some of it, I don't like the sneery tone. There are many similar articles around at the moment about Mothers who choose to stay at home.
Imagine if someone wrote a similar article about working Mothers.
It's just another excuse to pour scorn on Mothers and their choices, which are often complex decisions, not a knee jerk decision to be a martyr..

OP, you are being an utter twat for saying that only "biological, breastfeeding mothers" are true 100% parents.

Go and knit some yoghurt.

toots please tell me the OP didn't actually say that??

If so I missed that part, thank god.

Not breast feeding didnt make me any less of a parent IMVHO.

Who says it isn't?

Everybody wants healthy young people which one from healthy well balanced children.

Because everybody wants the above they think long and hard and do what is right for their family.It would be nice if everybody was supported in those informed choices instead of lazy journalists writing snippy little articles that attack the opposite of what they did.

Come

"Who says it isn't? "
The many of us who agree with some of the sentiments of the article, ie: that patriarchal society elevates mothers to some kind of sainted status, rather than acknowledging that good parenting is important in raising well adjusted individuals.

tantrums

MrZing didn't breastfeed either, so not a !00% parent either, is he?
you know the things is, the babies did try to suck on his nipples, but his chest was too hairy and the milk just wouldn't come.

shall I leave the bastard?

lainiekazan if you'd read my posts further up the thread you would know she is NOT a 'Poncey Guardian journalist prob living in N London vs. SAHM in Swindon' you couldn't be more wrong.

She's a comedian and writer from Melbourne Australia who lives with her partner, gay husband, others and her sons in some sort of commune, so she actually couldn't be further from the lifestyle of your average British woman. So basically she is winding us up and getting publicity and attention and advertising revenue for the Guardian by writing on a subject guaranteed to cause debate and annoyance and we are doing exactly what was desired like a bunch of dopey sheep.

Yes Janey, I agree with that point too. Some of the myths of motherhood are designed to placate mothers who are left to do all the hard work, while so many fathers do much less.

Well, a comedian and writer living with partner, gay husband etc sounds pretty poncey to me !

Good parenting is debatable though,there isn't a one size fits all on that either.We all do it differently.Good to me may not be good to you.

And sorry re "sainted status" and "patriarchal society" don't get you there.Don't know anybody living in a patriarchal society and being a parent imvho is the single most important role you'll ever have whether you like it or not,sainthood?Never heard parenthood referred to as that- hard,difficult to get right etc but sainthood no.Think the author is getting a tad carried away.

But Millymolly, you are projecting your situation onto other people. I get that, in your specific circumstances, you could not have afforded to go back to work, but it isn't the same for everybody.

I work full time, and earn a good salary. DH is self employed, and varies his hours according to what he has got on - sometimes he does very long hours, sometimes less than full time. We don't have childcare costs in term time because we both work flexibly - I do all the morning school runs and 1-2 afternoons, DH does two afternoons. My parents usually do the other one or two, but DH and I could manage this quite easily if they weren't around, and did before they moved to be nearer to us. I do pay for a couple of holiday activities for dd, but they're a tiny proportion of what I earn, and it's as much about giving her something to do as it is about childcare.

We are not in debt, apart from a small mortgage that gets paid out of my salary, as do all of our household bills. We don't bother with having a cleaner or a gardener. And I walk to work, so no commuting costs either.

I know loads of parents who have arranged their working commitments around their family lives quite comfortably. The picture you paint of the woman who only has £50 left out of her six figure salary is an absurd caricature. It isn't representative of the lives of most WOHMs!

Tantrums, I am not some kind of creepy stalker, but I have agreed with your posts all the way through this thread.

Why do we all have to 'out hard' each other?

I am a parent to my children whether they are in my immediate vicinity or not (as is their dad), I couldn't give two hoots if someone is a SAHM or works, I hate it when I see mothers getting so defensive about their choices that they have to belittle or attack the choices of others.

It is divide and conquer at its best, and when we keep getting sucked into it and end up having a pop at each other then it is a real shame (IMO).

The archetypal 9-5 or 7 job/career is not the only way to generate an income. I chose to not return to my career when DS was 12 months old as it wasn't the right decision for us all at the time. My DS is now 6 and DD is 2 and we need more money coming in but it is looking likely that that will be gained by moving to a house that needs a total renovation and me coordinating that. The money we can make from that is going to be far greater than most local pt roles I could undertake.

The obvious problems with this are that my status in society continues to be marginalised as SAHM- I can live with that but evidently it is really important to some. Equally, there is a lack of career progression for myself - this is a dilemma but I wanted to be a SAHP for my DC in the early years so in that respect I have to live with the consequences of that.

Toots, what's your problem exactly? I didn't say any of those things about breastfeeding. I didn't once say it
made you a better person. I said it was the reason more women choose to be the sahp, because they're the one doing the pregnancy, birth, breast feeding.(and I did acknowledge that there are exceptions such as adoption and surrogacy)

seriously, you must be reading some other thread. And I reported that post because I don't think anything I've written warrants calling me a cunt, crossed out or not. You're very very angry about something, but I've done nothing wrong, so please quit with the abuse.

We all live in a patriarchial/male dominated society.

Women are told that as mothers via media for example, that mothers should be self sacrificing saints. Of course mothers don't live up to this, and so individual mothers get lots of criticism.

Fathers are not treated the same way. Women who are in the forces for example, who do a stint of active service abroad, get heavily criticised for leaving their children. Fathers who do the same, do not get the same criticism. Mothers are held to a higher standard.

Grennie, I am in the forces and have deployed a few times - the longest being 4 months away but a few times up to 2 months.

I had no option (at the time I had my boys) to take longer than 4 months maternity with the eldest, 6 months with the youngest. I had no option to reduce my hours to part time, or even to not work shifts. (I could have left obviously, but I couldn't have continued with that career again without re-joining and starting from the bottom again).

My husband is also serving, and what you just posted is absolutely spot on - nobody bats an eyelid when he goes away and I am left, but there are always comments when I have to do anything. Even down to the ridiculous "Ooh, hasn't Mr Lewinski done well looking after the children whilst Monica is away; fair play, he's kept on top of the housework too".

It has improved in some way for mothers in the forces over the last few years (up until the early 90s you were sacked for being pregnant, so it is still a very misogynistic environment), but we are still judged differently to the fathers and held to a higher standard of implied guilt.

I hate seeing mothers attack each other on here, I firmly believe that we all try to do our best for our children and families - just because someone has made a different choice as to how to do something (SAH/WOH) it does not mean they are wrong, or that they are by default de-valuing/sneering at a different choice.

All a bit rambly, sorry!

So we're all agreed that good parenting is what matters, raising well adjusted individuals who will take a positive place in society?
And we're all agreed that there are different ways of achieving this?

Great. Not a SAHM/ WOHM issue at all then

All sorted janey!

Monica, yes that is what I think this article is trying to say. Children need love and attention. But why should mothers have greater responsibility than fathers? It is misogyny.

I said it was the reason more women choose to be the sahp, because they're the one doing the pregnancy, birth, breast feeding.

Actually, I'm not convinced about this - we have maternity leave to cover late pregnancy, birth and the earlier stages of breastfeeding, and so few women on our society feed beyond six months that I doubt this has much impact on their decision to stay at home. I went back to work shortly before the six month mark, but continued to feed dd until she was well past two and a half, so it's perfectly possible to combine the two even if you do choose to bf for longer!

More women choose to be the SAHP, because women tend to be paid less than men, and it is seen as more natural for the woman to be the SAHP.