To think that as pre school is not compulsory...

[cantsleep]

That it should not matter if dd is late every day ?

My other dcs get to actual school on time but due to various health problems and the fact I don't drive dd is always about half an hour late.

I've explained time and time again to the pre school that iam doing my best but I got a letter today regarding a meeting they'd had citing one of the main problems as being that dd is late each day.

I get up at 6 am each day and get myself ready, then it takes over an hour to get dd1 up and sometimes ds1 needs help too as both have to do physio each morning. Dd2 and ds2 are only little and need to be dressed etc and dd2 has significant health needs. We get the oldest two to school on time but by then I'm already exhausted and usually have my breakfast and a cup of tea and then get dcs ready to walk down to pre school.

Dd hates it so screams and takes shoes off numerous times etc and it just takes ages as I'm tired.

I just feel that given the circumstances the pre school should just accept that we will never be on time rather than make such a big issue out of half an hour. Rather than putting pressure on me I would like them to just make the best of the situation and accomodate the fact that dd arrives at a different time.

AIBU?

Im sorry but reading this is making me quite cross and not at the OP but at the Pre-School as they are failing in the care of your child

I work at a Nursery/Pre-School and i have a diabetic child as one of my key children and it is my responsibility to check his blood when he comes in and then half an hour before lunch check his blood again and give the correct amount of insulin and then ensure that he eats his lunch it takes maybe 15 minutes total including washing hands etc to do the blood prick twice and the insulin which is nothing it doesn't take up a lot of my time and the other staff are just aware to ensure he doesn't eat a lot of snack or any grapes because of the sugar content

I spend more time doing the activities that are required for SALT or for the 2 year old checks the health visitor has forgot to do than i do spending time with the child who is diabetic

Your Pre-School need a stern talking to because it is ridiculous that they are failing in the care of your child and if they feel they cannot cope with your child's needs than they need to look at how they manage the staff and the needs of the other children because if they can't manage something as simple as Diabetes than i hope they do not have any children in their care who have complex needs

Also with the arrival times just state that because the EYFS is free play and free flow based it does not matter when you arrive and if they give you any lines about school preparedness just tell them that the EYFS goes up to the end of reception so its free flow based then as well

There's more than one way of running a three hour pre school session that works well.

My children are well past the pre school days, but I work in early years.

In that case you should understand how flexible early years settings need to be in order to make them work and be accessible to children with a variety of needs.

I don't really see why it matters if she is late. It doesn't disrupt that's silly. They are usually playing anyway. I think they need to be understanding of her special needs.

cantsleep how are you today?

When is the meeting with the pre-school, have you got someone who can come with you? A professional would probably help, hv or is there an sn advisor for your pre-school that they would have to listen to.

Yes, really.

Of course I understand that setting need to be flexible, that much gies without saying.

But I find it hard to believe that they are having meetings and sending out letters identifying a problem with the lateness if there isn't one. It seems likely that there is more to this story than just a pre school being difficult, and we only have one side of the story.

OP has said nothing about why the pre school have an issue with it, and it would help to know because it might be something that could be easily overcome without causing OP such a major problem.

I think they need to be understanding of her special needs.

Of course they do. But if they've had the training and they know what they're doing with diabetes management then there's no reason they can't accommodate those needs within the session time.

I realise OP has said she doesn't fully trust them, but that's a separate issue entirely from the lateness, so irrelevant to what I'm saying.

Ops dd doesn't need to be late because of her diabetes, she's late because of the time that OP has to leave the house to get her older children to school. The BG check that OP does before she gets to pre school could be done there, with the staff, which would also have the benefit of there being less to handover and more time to do it in.

But the op says

We have only been on time once, and from that I saw that there is no welcome time just in the door and straight into playing so I don't think it makes the big difference that they are assaying it does, in fact it seems easier to take dd later when all the other children settled as I can then speak to her key worker and do the daily handover a bit easier.

She also does her blood sugars when she is at her mums. The thing is if the later arrival works, then why does it matter so much to the preschool?

Also I don't know if I am just exceptionally lucky, but the 3 preschools and 2 primaries that my children have attended (and will attend in Sept) have always taken into account family circumstances. For example ds has to go to a hospital appointment tomorrow, it will take us and hour and a half to get there, so we are picking both girls up at 2.30, at the suggestion of the school. They have been amazing about supporting my dd's when their brother has been in hospital etc.

We did not go today, dd had a hypo (she had refused to eat all of her breakfast) and then ds2 fell off a chair and bit his tongue so the morning was a disaster. Planning on speaking to pre school tomorrow.

The letter they sent stated that "the main issue is dd2s late arrival.this makes it difficult for staff to instigate a routine and she always arrives distressed. The first thing that has to be done is usually a finger prick test or snack. This is disruptive as the other children are all engrossed in activities already and dd2s key worker is not always available.

Dd2 does not want her mother to leave and gets very upset. Mother is understandably anxious that dd2 will not then eat her snack and may be unwell. In addition to this mother phones during the session 2-3 times."

The letter was a copy of one the pre school had sent to diabetes team and had copied to me as well.

ok , but fi you were able to do the test and administer a snack before 9am then the "disruption" might be avoided. Ask them to set aside space in which you can reasonably do this. They are putting forward problems , offer them solutions supported by the nurse and hv, and use their concerns as ammunition for one to one at the review meeting.

What did you think about arriving half an our earlier and doing the checks there /having a snack yourself?

It is difficult as I could do a check at 9 am and dd may be fine, sometimes she is a bit on the high side so wouldn't need a snack but occasionally she drops very quickly ( we have had her go from 16.9 to 2.2 in half an hour before and she has no hypo awareness so its really hard).

I've tried to explain to them but I sometimes phone and ask what her bg levels have been and they have not done them as "she looks fine" aaaarrrrrggggghhhh-trying to explain that just because she looks fine doesn't mean she is, she has been 3.2 before and seems fine and we've caught it by chance, other times she just faints but they don't seem to understand that the disruption of finger pricks or starting snack time early is nothing in comparison to the disruption dd having a bad hypo would cause.

Reading between the lines of their letter and from what I've seen when I've been there I think they really mean:

" having a child here with additional needs is too much hard work for us. We want everybody here at the same time and engrossed in activities so we can all sit at various tables or chat to each other and not really have to do very much. We don't want to start snack time early for just one child as then all the others ask for a snack too, we are hoping that by huffing and puffing a lot when can't sleeps dd arrives and can't sleep dictates to us that her dd needs a test and snack immediately that she might just decide at some point to give up coming."

Your instinct may be right but I still think you need to give them an opportunity to agree an action plan with you and you to give them the space to work with you to manage it, otherwise it will become more of an issue when she starts school and your dd will be the one to lose out. You can also use their concerns and misunderstandings to give weight to your argument for a statement and LSA.

I am not are why dds diabetes is so hard to deal with , some days after having same insulin dose and same amount of food she is high, other days needs constant topping up as keeps dropping to low blood sugars. Wondering if her ratios of insulin to carbs needs adjusting

Some days when I take her they are so 'off' I feel like I have to be apologetic explaining if she's a bit low and will need her snack early. All the criticism over the time I get there just makes me feel like they just want to make things harder not easier.

And I did my utmost over the last few weeks to gradually get dds lunchtime to slightly later so that I could collect her at the end of the session at 1215 rather than collect early at 1130 as they were moaning about that too. They don't seem to notice the effort I'm making and that I've changed things.

Ok, now that you're explaining things a bit more clearly, I can understand the problems with the setting more easily.

I was under the impression that they had written a letter to you to complain about the lateness, when actually they were informing the diabetes team of the situation. That makes it different, because they weren't complaining to you, they were informing someone else. They shouldn't have felt the need to miss out the information about the lateness and the problems they are having establishing a routine in their communications.

There is no reason why they shouldn't have snacks available for all the children throughout the whole session. Having fruit sat on a table with a couple of chairs so that it's available for every child, but particularly your dd is probably one of the easiest things ever that could be done for the sake of inclusion.

The battle you are having about the checking being done, or not being done, is one the diabetes team should be fighting for you, albeit with your support.

But I can understand that the pre school will find it hard to drop everything for your dds arrival when shes upset along with a test and a snack if they don't even know what time you will be turning up each day.

There has to be a compromise here somewhere, but I think the nursery need to give you confidence in their ability to deal with your dds health needs first.

I can see that if you drop off half an hour late, with a distressed child who then needs checks, then ring three times in two hours and then pick up 45 mins early that it might not be straigtforward for a fixed hour setting (as opposed to a flexible nursery) to manage without an extra helper or a plan in place.

I can see why that might be disruptive. The hard bit will be coming up with a plan you can both work with.
You initially said arriving late was due to you having breakfast and a cup of tea -if thats what you're telling them it won't help.

OP I have read through your whole thread and I suspect your latest post sums up the key issue - they don't actually want to deal with a child with her needs.

They have received training, they have been provided with a care plan, it should be a straightforward thing for them to manage, as orange says upthread - but clearly it is not.

I can understand a certain degree of frustration with daily random lateness, if they never quite know exactly when your DD will arrive. But why can they not just agree with you that DD will 'officially' start a half hour later? They would then be able to plan for it, her keyworker could at that point go through things with you (surely easier for her to do that with all the other children settled to activities, rather than you trying to do it at the start of the session with all the other parents and children faffing about?) and it would relieve the daily stress on you to a certain extent.

The thing is you are not being late because you're disorganised or disrespectful. You are late because several of your children have complex medical needs. Your DD needs typical preschool routines adapted for her because of said medical needs. They shouldn't be making things this hard for you!

Exactly i agree with dietcokeandwine just tell the Pre-School that you will start at half past and thats when they should expect you and if the key worker can not get organised enough to plan her time accordingly it is not your fault and they may want to look at some additional training for her/them

I have a child that leaves 30/40 minutes before the end of the session because the parent has to go across town and pick up her brother so i make sure all bits are ready for when she goes and that she doesn't start anything major or too messy while she waits to be picked up its not a hardship it's all part of my role of being a key worker to know the individual needs of the children i look after and plan and adapt my ways of working for them to get the best out of it and to cause them and their parents as less stress and worry as possible

We get there at 945 its not a different time each day, I really am trying, the cup of tea is just a s,all part of the morning and what I do in between school and pre school its also checks, maybe a snack for dd, brush their teeth and hair etc if I haven't already jut things like that. I mentioned the tea as I feel that I sit down to drink it and write the handover and I'm so tired that after that I'm slow to get going again.

Dd is nw always collected at end of session not early anymore.

cantsleep I think the cup of tea and bit of breakfast thing is kind of irrelevant to be honest. It's just the one tiny thing that you manage to do for yourself in between managing all the other multiple demands on you, and as you say you're writing a handover plan even as you're drinking the tea - so it's hardly like you're sitting there with your feet up.

I just feel defeated, I know its hard getting dd there and she has separation anxiety and medical needs but I so want her to play and socialise so I'm trying to persevere.

Pre school keep saying how they've had the training etc etc and I don't need to phone as much but then I lose all confidence in them when they try to limit her food not adjust it depending on her blood sugar, ask how to treat a hypo or don't check her when she needs checking as " she looks ok".

Oh cantsleep you need some

I know exactly how you feel, we had dd2's paed start statutory assessment as she was appalled at lack of support. We now have statement, and 1:1. Would your paed or diabetes nurse get on the case of pre-school if they are not following the care plan?