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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to expect this couple to have spoken English when I was with them

151 replies

OrlandoWoolf · 16/11/2013 19:46

I was doing some work in a client's house today. Both clients were from abroad but they could both speak good English. When I was doing the work, I could hear them speaking in their native language.

I asked later if they wanted more work doing at another time. They then spoke in their language for a bit (not the first time they'd done that when I was there and with them) before answering me in English.

I do feel a bit strange when such things happen. It's happened at some other places I have worked at where conversations have happened around me in a native language.

AIBU to expect people who can speak English to speak English when I was with them?

OP posts:

Rockhopper1 · 19/11/2013 21:51

Amazed so many people think it's ok to treat someone in your employ with a lower level of respect than you'd accord someone in ' a social situation ' ..Kindness costs nothing .. Virtual hugs from here OP ! xx

Jinsei · 19/11/2013 22:46

DH always speaks to his family and some friends in his native language which I find quite irritating as they can all speak English. It makes me feel excluded from the conversation (and bored!).

So why don't you learn his native language, then?

sonlypuppyfat · 19/11/2013 22:52

Very rude if you asked them something then they chatted in something you couldn't understand.

inabeautifulplace · 19/11/2013 23:28

It is understandable that they might converse directly with you in English, conduct a further part of the conversation which revolves around you in English and then talk to each other in the most natural way. If they did pointedly exclude you, would it have been ruder to have asked you to wait outside?

I it also possible that they are nuances to the decision which either they cannot communicate in English or would be embarrassed about (such as being too poor to afford the full course)?

whatever5 · 19/11/2013 23:38

So why don't you learn his native language, then?

I can understand it to a certain extent but I'm not fluent. I don't really see why I should be as I've haven't exactly got loads of free time and it wouldn't be of much use to me (apart from being able to understand the in law's conversations with DH). Also, it's not a language that it is taught by local colleges where we live in the UK.

eightandthreequarters · 19/11/2013 23:48

Of course it's rude to do what the OP outlined! I speak 3 languages, as do the DC. I have always taught them that it is rude to freeze someone out of a conversation by speaking a language they do not understand, unless there is a very good reason. I think OP that you are right - if you are conversational in a language, you don't switch to another in mid-conversation and leave one person wondering what you are saying. If I need to translate something for DH, I tell the other person that I will be translating for him, so they know what's going on.

Jinsei · 19/11/2013 23:57

See, I think you should learn it, or else, if you're not interested, just accept that you won't understand your DH when he talks to family and friends and that this may exclude you from some conversations. There is no point in being irritated about it. In my view, it's totally unreasonable to expect him to speak to his own family and friends in a foreign language all the time, just because you won't make an effort to learn his language.

My DH's language is not taught in local colleges either, and there aren't loads of books available either, but it is possible to teach yourself if you are motivated. Personally, I think language is a huge part of who we are, and I would hate to have to speak to my own family in something other than English.

Fair enough to expect him to speak English when you're around for the first year or two, but after that, he might reasonably expect you to be making an effort to learn.

Grumpasaurus · 19/11/2013 23:58

Sorry, you are most definitely being unreasonable.

I do some tutoring to make extra money, and a lot of my clients are from abroad. I find it absolutely normal for them to talk in their native language to one another, it would be odd for them to do anything else.

I am guessing you are a bit of an Anglophobe? Get over yourself.

Rockhopper1 · 20/11/2013 00:04

OP : In my view sensitivity is a great quality . Your posts come across as considerate & thoughtful which are excellent qualities for a tutor to possess.
Re the horrid low - self esteem thing & worrying about other peoples' opinions...
My family have a whacky but surprisingly effective way of dealing with this :
You have a big red bus in your head .You are the driver & in complete charge . Only people that make you feel happy / you love are allowed on. Anyone grumpy/ mean / makes you feel bad is barred or kicked off for causing a disruption ..
Well .. Works for us anyway ..

NadiaWadia · 20/11/2013 00:05

What eightandthreequarters said. Of course they were being bloody rude! It is rude to exclude someone else from the conversation especially for purposes of discussing them, right in front of them.

My twat of an ex-landlady did this (speaking to her father in Punjabi), when I was showing her something that had gone wrong in the house. It is just so ignorant.

I can't understand some of the responses you have had on here.

BlueSkySunnyDay · 20/11/2013 00:07

If they were talking in the background when you were working YABU

When the talked about you in front of you YANBU - the polite thing to say would be "we will let you know" if they had not already made a decision.

Its just polite not to talk about someone in front of them particularly in another language.

I wouldnt assume that because I were paying someone all the manners I had been taught were irrelevant, you dont pay for the right to be rude.

Actually from what my H tells me about clients the more money people have the more they seem to filter who they need to be polite to - all the money in the world cant buy manners it seems

ClayDavis · 20/11/2013 00:16

From your OP I think YABU. But with your update you might not have been being unreasonable. Although as others have said it's possible they may have not noticed switching languages. I've done that before even though I'm not actually bilingual but only fairly fluent in another language.

I wouldn't have a problem with it at all but if it is going to cause a problem for you with your self-esteem is it a good idea to take this client on for 20 weeks?

justanuthermanicmumsday · 20/11/2013 00:29

I think you're being unreasonable just a tad bit.

But if the conversation involved you ie you asked them a question then they stood around discussing that question in their mother tongue before answering you in return then yes thats rude but only since you said they can both speak English, I take it they speak it fluently?

We have maintenance men in our rental property a lot I don't speak my so called mother tongue in front of them because I don't need to and I'm more fluent and at ease speaking in English. if however I felt at ease speaking in my mother tongue I would, it would come naturally, I wouldn't be pondering oh the electricians here I better speak English just in case my mother tongue offends him. To hell with that he's doing his job If I'm addressing my kids or husband it doesn't concern him,so therefore it is not rude I can speak in any language I wish.

redshifter · 20/11/2013 00:30

Grumpasaurus

I am guessing you are a bit of an Anglophobe? Get over yourself

This doesn't make sense.

I am guessing you need a dictionary? Explain yourself.

NadiaWadia · 20/11/2013 00:39

justanuther if it was just normal household conversation, like eg telling your kids to get ready for school, than that is not rude.
But if, say, the electrician was speaking to you, eg to give you and your DH a quote, and you were both standing there discussing it with him and then suddenly went into your own language right in front of him, then yes that would be rude.

nennypops · 20/11/2013 08:23

Not too sure why you assume they were talking about you. They could have been discussing whether they could afford it, whether their daughter had time, whether the time of the slots would continue to be OK, etc etc.

whatever5 · 20/11/2013 12:06

Jinsei- I disagree that I should learn DH's language just so I can understand everything he is saying to the in laws on the couple of times of a year we see them. They all speak perfect English and it wouldn't be much effort for them to speak in English when I am there. In contrast it would take a lot of time and effort for me to learn to speak his language fluently.

I am fine with the fact that DH never utters a word of English to our children as I appreciate that he wants them to speak his language (I can generally understand particularly as they answer in English). I just think that with the adults in his family he should try to speak English if I am there so that I don't feel excluded.

Gruntfuttock · 20/11/2013 12:37

redshifter It's very puzzling. Grumpasaurus is the second* person to have suggested that the OP might be an Anglophobe, which makes no sense whatsoever.

*the first was LessMissAbs Sat 16-Nov-13 19:51:28

Fakebook · 20/11/2013 12:42

YABU. They probably feel comfortable talking to each other in their own language.

Jinsei · 20/11/2013 12:49

Jinsei - I disagree that I should learn DH's language just so I can understand everything he is saying to the in laws on the couple of times of a year we see them. They all speak perfect English and it wouldn't be much effort for them to speak in English when I am there. In contrast it would take a lot of time and effort for me to learn to speak his language fluently

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. :) I don't think you should necessarily have to learn his language if you choose not to, but I don't think you're entitled to feel irritated about him speaking it to his own family. If you only see them a couple of times a year, it's no big deal anyway.

Speaking to someone in a different language fundamentally changes the nature of the relationship in my view. I would not be willing to speak to my parents indefinitely in a language that was "foreign" to me and them, no matter how fluent we all were. Communicating in English is an integral part of how we relate to one another.

DH and I have three languages in common - his, mine and the language of the country in which we met. We interchange freely between them, but have one clear rule - we argue in the neutral language only!

ephemeralfairy · 20/11/2013 12:54

I do think they should have said 'do you mind if we just discuss this between ourselves quickly?'. Just out of politeness really.

This has reminded me of when I was little and my parents (both fluent French speakers) would speak to each other in French if I was in the rrom and they didn't want me to hear...! It drove me mad!

Mim78 · 20/11/2013 12:56

I think there are two parts to this.

Talking in their own language in the background while you were working would not be rude if that is what they habitually do as that conversation did not concern you. If they hadn't had another language they might, for instance, having been talking in another room about the everyday household issues. So I think no problem here. If the issue here is that they were talking away in the background and this stopped you from concentrating on teaching their child then they would have been a bit rude whether it was English or another language.

The second part, where you asked a question and they conferred in their own language before replying, was rude of them and YANBU. As others have said they could have said "we'll get back to you later" or something like that.

In general I don't think that the ability to speak another language should be used to exclude someone from the conversation, or parts of it. Also in general I think it's polite to use the common language when people who don't speak one of your languages are present.

FudgefaceMcZ · 20/11/2013 13:00

Maybe one of them doesn't speak/understand English too well, so they needed to discuss it with them in the other language before deciding? I think you're being quite rude and intolerant, it must be extremely hard to learn a language as complex as English as an adult (speaking as someone who's moved from Scotland to north Wales and is finding it hard to keep up with even preschool Welsh... Welsh is much easier to learn than English too. I have absolute sympathy with people who move to the UK from elsewhere and find it tricky, not everyone is gifted at languages and it can be very intimidating and isolating when everyone else is speaking something you don't understand well)

Original poster

OrlandoWoolf · 20/11/2013 13:08

"Rude and intolerant"

I thought this thread had died but obviously not.

The mum had been here for 6 years and is a professional writing in English. Her daughter spoke very fluent English based on my hour with her. I was talking to both of them and the mum asked her daughter about the lesson, what she'd learnt etc in English whilst standing next to me.

Then when I was wondering if they wanted more lessons as I was not sure, the language suddenly changed.

OP posts:

whatever5 · 20/11/2013 13:22

Jinsei- Not everyone is good at languages as you obviously are. I didn't even pass french O level despite being good at other academic subjects, and as I said, it would take a lot of time effort for me to speak another language fluently. In contrast it would not be much effort for DH to speak English to his family a couple of times a year. He sees them quite a lot when I am not there so I didn't think it would be too much of a hardship for him to speak English when I'm there!

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