to expect this couple to have spoken English when I was with them

[OrlandoWoolf]

I was doing some work in a client's house today. Both clients were from abroad but they could both speak good English. When I was doing the work, I could hear them speaking in their native language.

I asked later if they wanted more work doing at another time. They then spoke in their language for a bit (not the first time they'd done that when I was there and with them) before answering me in English.

I do feel a bit strange when such things happen. It's happened at some other places I have worked at where conversations have happened around me in a native language.

AIBU to expect people who can speak English to speak English when I was with them?

Meant to add - OP, I've often done the switch in mid conversation, many times, as I forget the correct word I want to use so will ask DP in English before changing back.

Like I said, I'm just a very sensitive person with low self-esteem and who worries a lot. Probably why I quit teaching as I know I was talked about then by the parents, head etc

Does anyone remember a comedy sketch, with Penelope Keith in her Margo Leadbetter role saying 'Pas devant les domestiques' when she and her husband were talking about private matters, and Paul Eddington playing her husband saying 'We're in France dear'?

I'm bilingual and manage basic consideration...

It happens sometimes that I use the "wrong" language to someone, but it is usually fairly noticeable. They may not have deliberately snubbed you, but it's possible to be rude without meaning to.

And to those people who think I put them on the spot by asking, they had initially requested 20 weeks of tutoring so that's why I asked. I have turned away 4 people recently as I have a full timetable. Then a slot came up.

But I do get how easy it is to slip between languages.

at DameDeep

OP

Have you considered they do not know the words in English?

It's quite rare for someone to be truly bilingual, most people who speak more than one language often only use it in certain settings, so know the vocabulary of some settings in only one language.

Code-switching. It's very common among us bilingual/multilingual folk.

And people with more than one dialect.

I was once asked in Holland what language I was speaking. Obviously I said English and I had assumed the person (Dutch tourist information so reasonable to assume they spoke English) in the office had understood me speaking to my friend.

Apparently our strong accents and dialect words had rendered the conversation incomprehensible.

And also jargon. I've been at family gatherings and being asked to speak English when discussing things with some family members. Quite a few of us currently or formerly worked in healthcare, the police or teaching, we use acronyms and jargon to each other without thinking about it but to an outsider a patient being given a 'cabbage' might sound odd.

Orlando - people talk about other people all the time - it is what humans do.
You cannot protect yourself from this by retreating further and further away from the world.
The only way to tackle it is to try to stop caring about what others may or may not be saying.
Maybe some counselling on this (quite common) issue would help you with your self esteem and your worries.
You don't have to live with paranoia etc - there are strategies to deal with it.

Last night I was in more or less the same situation as the OP. I did my lesson with 2 children.

We went into the living room where the 2 groups of parents (who speak very good English) were waiting. They spoke to me in English, and then had a discussion (in their native language, which I understand, as the OP understands the language of her particular people) about who was to give me a lift.

I'm feeling a little U that I didn't feel U.

OP- seriously, this is nothing to do with languages, or rudeness, as I think you can see to be honest. It's to do with your self-esteem. If you feel that bad because people have talked about you (and not negatively from what you are saying) then you need to focus on why that is, not try and bring other people's non-existent rudeness into play.

And I would love to see BritsAbroad switch to the language of the country they are in when the waiter hovers. The day hell freezes over, like.

YABU. It's their house and I don't think they were talking about you, you asked if they wanted more work done and they were discussing it amongst themselves in the language they talk to each other in.

YANBU. Speaking in front of you, about you, in their own language is very very rude indeed. There are some odd responses here. Obviously if you're just in the house and you hear a random conversation from another part in another language, that is not rude but yo purposefully exclude you is really rude.

Wonders if anyone has read the whole thread including my updates

This happens in my workplace all the time and it doesn't bother me.

I have Nigerian colleagues who talk to each other in Yoruba and then English to me. As long as it doesn't impede our work, who cares?

It only becomes a problem when you have evidence they are putting you down, or its a safety issue.

YABU and really nosy why does it matter what language they were speaking together perhaps they find it difficult to talk in English to each other when English is not their first language, they spoke to you in ENglish are you that important that you think they should talk in YOUR language, you were tutoring their child not round for a coffee,

Yes, I have. Thanks for asking. It's a thing I tend to do, call me daft. Read the whole thread.

That's also why I updated from my post of yesterday. Because I found myself in a similar situation, but only even thought about my reaction to it, because of your thread yesterday.

I think you have had some unduly harsh criticism Orlando

You asked a question about whether they wanted any more lessons and they went off and spoke in their own language, presumably to discuss this. This is incredibly rude on their part. What was wrong with saying to you that they would contact you in the week. It must be very unnerving to know you were being discussed and to justify this behaviour on the basis that it's OK it's in their language, you are being provincial or you are 'paid help' is misguided. Being rude is indefensible whatever language it is being played out in

Er yes I have read the whole thread Orlando - but as you choose to ignore message of kindness and support I shall now block this.

I'm a bit torn on this - in the past I have been absolutely infuriated by English people who imagine that Welsh speakers speak Welsh purely to annoy them. The number of times I've heard, "They were all speaking English in the pub before we arrived, and when they saw us they started speaking Welsh..." Well, how the fuck do you know what language they were speaking before you arrived?

But on this occasion it sounds as if they were speaking in their own language deliberately to exclude you, as bakingaddict says. Handy for them, but very awkward for you. So on balance, yanbu.

harticus

I said IABU. A long time ago.

harticus

And I do appreciate what you said. I was just annoyed that this thread was suddenly resurrected when I said IABU and kind of hoped the thread would go away.

If they were aware that they'd switched then they were a bit unreasonable, but as others have said they may not have been aware or it may have been a choice between maths tutoring and an activity they're used to discussing in their language, or they might have been saying they needed to consult another family member and associate the language with them... Or they may have been being rude.

I can't really say whether YABU or not because there are just too many unknowns and this is obviously something that's a sensitive subject for you but it's entirely possible they weren't doing it to be rude.

harticus Sun 17-Nov-13 09:44:01 to OP

[& with NO apologies from me for the shouty nature of the below; is solely due to the fact that 'normal' 'volume' doesn't seem to be heard by some posters]

Post ends with THIS gem - & from a post that I think was intended as of 'support'...

'You don't have to live with paranoia etc - there are strategies to deal with it.'

How - just HOW??? - on earth did a pretty simple AIBU Q. end up with a presumptive statement of an assertion that the OP has a (pretty hard core in the 'ladder' of MH issues) serious Mental Health problem?

Amongst a couple of others seen recently, this thread serves to highlight the ignorance and the SO casually banged out on folk's keyboards yet SO 'attacking' (as has been plenty of that above too) the very WORST of MN; and by extension MN'ers.

OP I feel for you, but more than that I feel for the fact that THIS genuinlely is PRECISELY the bilious tosh that leads to people genuinely thinking MN IS a 'Nest of Vipers - and in doing so, will/does distort MN in a macro sense and alienate individuals in a micro sense; the latter potentially being lethal.

And before ANYONE oh so casually thinks fit to fire off a riposte that the above is 'over-dramatic', or any other misplaced superlative they can think of; I can tell you as a statment of fact that I posted - in UTTER desperation - an OP on the 12th of May this year, and had I NOT done so, and had other MN'ers NOT come to my aid to help me secure the medical treatment I was in desperate need of (and are, incidentally, all STILL by side), then I would, unquestionably, be dead now.

So could I just ask that you maybe:

Engage brains before fingers and actually READ the bloody thread?

That you offer your view, do so but WITHOUT laying into the OP?; and that when you DO comment, whilst clearly whatever you write is absolutely your choice, that it DOESN'T include the manifest lunacies of the kind above?

I am bilingual and Dh English is pretty good but it happens when we are in the uk that we revert to his language as its easier for comprehension ... Its not rudeness just easier.
When I am out with the dds in a group of friends I speak the native language as find it rude ( unless they are getting a telling off in which case I use whatever language comes out of my mouth).

I wouldn't expect clients to speak English in front of me. I do understand why it made you feel uncomfortable though.

DH always speaks to his family and some friends in his native language which I find quite irritating as they can all speak English. It makes me feel excluded from the conversation (and bored!).

The mid-conversation switch is something a lot of bilingual people do. It's just about whatever is easiest for what they're discussing.

My old boss, and her husband who also did some consultancy work for us, were bilingual, as were a couple of other people attached to the firm. I got so used to the mid-conversation, or sometimes mid-sentence, switch that I barely noticed it, even thought I didn't speak a word of their language. Often the flow of the conversation continued sufficiently for me to keep up.