To expect the school to do something about ds being laughed at for wearing a Hello Kitty onsie?

[lecce]

He is 4 and wore it yesterday for Children in Need. The bloody thing is mainly white, and, for that reason mainly, I had tried to steer him in the direction of others, but he was adamant that was the one he wanted. He already has a plain pink lunchbox and pink Peppa Pig wellies and tells me he has had the odd comment about these being 'for girls', but he insists he doesn't mind. He is very shy but tells me he has told these children, 'Pink isn't just for girls!', though I do find it hard to imagine him saying this to a child he doesn't know well.

This morning he tells me that yesterday a few children laughed at him so he took off the onsie and spent most of the day in pyjamas. He had no dressing gown or slippers, as the onsie had covered feet, and tells me he was cold. He had to put the onsie back on to play out at lunchtime and more children laughed at him then. He has named two children from his class as being the main laughers when he was inside the school. He is 4, ffs. Why can't he wear what he likes? However, he does not really seem upset as such, and he says he didn't tell the teacher what was going on.

I am annoyed because the teachers didn't seem to be aware of what was going on. I know they can't help it if he doesn't tell them, but they should have been aware, imo, if the comments were enough to make him want to take it off. He is very happy with his wellies and lunchbox, so I feel there must have been quite a lot of comments this time. I teach in a secondary school and, of course, sometimes things like this go on without the teacher being aware, but I am sure 4 yr olds are a lot less subtle than teens! Also, I would expect a parent to bring something like this to my attention if I didn't notice it myself.

I am also a bit annoyed, though less so, that they didn't contact dh (they know he is a sahd) to bring in an alternative for him, to save him being cold and having a miserable lunchtime. I just feel that ds has had a bit of a pants day, when it should have been fun and he was so pleased with the onsie, and that I should do something about it.

On a similar topic, ds2 (yr2) tells me he regularly has, what he calls, 'mean comments' about his packed lunches - especially the fruit and Greek yogurt. He is capabale of standing up for himself, but says it's getting 'annoying'. I'm starting to feel this should be addressed too.

Dh thinks I'm being silly, but is starting to come around the more I go on. Tbh, though, I can't rely on him having a quick word with the teacher about this, as he will probably 'forget', so, if we do raise it, it will be me who does so, making it more formal as I will have to make an appointment.

AIBU to think it worth mentioning these issues, and to think that part of the role of primary school is to encourage kindness and tolerance amongst pupils?

But by secondary school age a child will be aware of what they are facing, and hopefully by then be emotionally equipped to deal with it too.

The fact that OP's DS has encountered bullying because of what he wore, and that it's not much of a surprise, show that we still have a long way to go before we can safely let young children wear what they please.

I just don't think it's fair to send a young kid to school in clothes in which he will attract bullying. Save the crusading for older children (who have a choice) and adults.

My DS, now 11, reminded me that the local Tesco sells pink yogurts for girls and blue yogurts for boys! Incredible.

Will you please stop spouting this ill informed, scientifically unsupported bullshit. Boys are NOT "naturally" drawn to transformers and girls are not "naturally" drawn to hello kitty. They are drawn to these things because of the world around them and the way they are brought up. Several posters have pointed out what actual RESEARCH shows in this matter and you persist in repeating that gender roles are completely natural and innate with no critical thought about what you're saying.

To the absurd Woowooowl, if not clear...

" and to tell our children that they should be enjoying things that they simply don't enjoy in the name of equality maintaining the status quo is damaging to their self esteem."

Works just as well - the OP's kid likes Hello Kitty. You're saying that it's ok when other kids tell him he's wrong for liking what he likes. Why?

I have told my kids that some people think hallo kitty is just for girls and transformers are only for boys. We agree that those people are monumentally stupid and best ignored.

Personally, I think the people who cannot accurately read sentences are monumentally stupid, but if I see stupidity aimed at me I won't ignore it, and clearly nor will you as shown by your response.

I did not say that 'hello kitty is just for girls and transformers are only for boys'.

I said that these two things are marketed at a specific gender. And they are. If you can't see that, you're a fool. Of course toy manufacturers aim things at a particular gender or a particular age group. They aren't going to complain no matter who buys them obviously, but they aren't daft enough to believe that targeted marketing has no effect, and you shouldn't be either.

And I think the OP has quite clearly explained why she let her son go to school dressed in this way, and it isn't about some sort of selfish crusading.

I think the monumentally stupid here are those people who post something and then say they've posted something completely different. You've said in at least two posts, Woowooowl, that children of different genders are "naturally" attracted to certain toys. You didn't say it was all about marketing.

I xposted with OP.

I think OP is wrong to say that posters are saying if you are in a minority for some reason, you should expect and accept being ridiculed.

I don't think anyone is saying it's acceptable to be ridiculed. But it's true sadly that it is to be expected. At the moment. In our society as it is.

As such is true then we need to decide how best to proceed with our children. I simply do not believe that sending a very young child to school in 'unusual clothes' is the right way to go about change.

"There is a danger we could go too far when trying to eradicate gender stereotypes"

What on earth are you talking about?

A parent is concerned her 4 yr old was teased for wearing his hello kitty onesie and you think actually the real problem is that 4 yr old boys are all being forced to like hello kitty?

Is this a real problem in your area?

Widow, I have not said that 'its ok' for any child to be ridiculed because of what they like.

FFS, what is it with people reading stuff that isn't there today?

What I'm saying is that I don't have a problem with any of these toys and characters and it's pointless to deny that there are gender differences.

I used to work in a nursery that took children from two years old. I'm aware of the research into how people treat boy and girl babies differently and that that will have some effect, but like it or not, children even as young as two display stereotypical characteristics.

Of course the school should have stopped any teasing.
HK is marketed as a girls product by the toy and clothing industry. My primary school aged children would say "HK is for girls" as a statement because it is in the girls section at clothing and toy shops and comes in pink and glitter. The statement might seem mean to a boy who likes HK but I can understand why they come to that conclusion.

I've had the conversations about sexist marketing with my kids like why are cars marketed at boys when just as many women drive them as men and they understand how random it at is.

Oh well if the marketing company says that hello kitty is for girls then that's the rules isn't it.

Yes, woowooowl, because they've already had two fucking years of growing up in a world that incessantly promotes gender stereotypes, and subjected to idiot nursery workers who think that boys and girls have "naturally" different preferences for certain kinds of play/toys. How obtuse can you be?

"As for all the assumptions that I have made him wear the onesie and have the other pink stuff so that he can be a poster-boy for my principles - rot!"

You knew exactly what would happen, and you let it happen, so of course you were using him as a pawn for your principles.

Now you are wailing online on a huge parenting forum that it did happen, and that a whole school and its pupils didn't turn somersaults to ensure your precious kid's ego was untroubled.

That's power-playing a poster-boy for your principles, in spades.

Do you have any counter-principles about the collateral damage to a young person, I wonder?

yes toys are marketed to specific genders...reinforcing amd perpetuating this sexist bullshit. they are reinforcing outdated sexual stereotypes and it is not good

yet so many people are happy to put up with this status quo and seem to think its normal and dont think it should be challenged.

fgs there is nothing genetic tgat makes hello kitty or any cat/kitten toy/clothing for girls. ditto dinosaurs not just being for boys, yet those are the messages are children are being given.

A parent is concerned her 4 yr old was teased for wearing his hello kitty onesie and you think actually the real problem is that 4 yr old boys are all being forced to like hello kitty?

No, I think the problem is that we are expecting young children not to notice that the majority of boys aren't interested in hello kitty, and that we are expecting them not to comment on differences that they observe.

They are small children, they are going to notice and they are going to comment. I don't think that stifling that is a good thing, and we should not send the message that children are being unkind when they notice these things. We can discuss differences and why saying certain things might hurt another child's feelings, but you can't deal with a problem by continuously going on about how it shouldn't exist.

I don't think there's anything natural about being drawn to one toy over another - kids are conditioned to be drawn to certain toys - by feminine/masculine packaging, the genders of the children playing with the toys in the adverts, and what's bought for them.

I can remember as a kid always wanting to go to my cousins house because he had the full collection of He-Man figures and a Castle Grayskull. I couldn't play with them anywhere else because they were 'boy' toys and not for me, but I liked them much more than Care Bears and My Little Pony. Transformers too, figuring out how they worked and transforming them back and forth (and some were quite complex) was more rewarding than pouring a pretend cup of tea from a pink teapot.

And my son was into - can't remember the brand now - little plastic hamster toys, they had a playhouse and they were marketed at girls, but he loved that toy until he realised he wasn't 'supposed' to.

You sent your ds to school with no outdoor shoes? That seems odd.

The other stuff don't sweat, if he isn't bothered then I wouldn't worry. In yr my dd was laughed at as hello kitty is babyish. She went of HK then, I could have made a big deal but I didn't it's a learning process and she chose to change her preferences based on others opinions as she matures she will develop her own mind further.

It's a non issue I think.

How obtuse can you be?

Right back at you!

Do you think nursery workers actively direct the girls to a pink and frilly hairdressing role play area while steering the boys away from it and instead guide them towards the knights role play area?

They don't. But what with them being people who have eyes, they can see which activities out of a whole range more girls are drawn to than boys, more boys are drawn to than girls, and which are played with more equally between the two genders - like sand and water and paint.

You said there is a danger we go too far when trying to eradicate gender stereotypes.

I am trying to work out what you mean. I have seen no signs of this danger at all.

No Lazeyjane, I did not know exactly what would happen. As I've said, he has had the other pink stuff since Sept and not been upset enough to not take it, so I didn't know how much worse it would be with the onesie.

What a bloody nasty comment you have made. I don't expect anyone to turn somersaults, just that the teacher in charge of his care might have some idea that he was upset. I have, however, made clear that I know that IMBU in threspect due to the particular circumstances.

As for your charming comment about my ''precious child's ego' being 'untroubled', that is bitchy, just bitchy. He wasn't on an ego-trip, just wearing what he sees as a fun outfit and, yes, I do expect him to be 'untroubled' when doing that, just like any other child.

OP, you know that pink and blue are still stereotypical colours for girls and boys, even in 2013.

You know that if advertising companies, the media and many adults in general buy into this stereotyping, there's a massive chance that their kids will.

You know that 4 year old children find things funny when they don't fit what they perceive as 'the norm'.

You know that 4 year olds don't all have the social skills to keep their laughing to themselves.

And yet knowing all of that, you appeared to 'throw your son to the wolves' so to speak.

Why? Why on earth would you let him put himself through that? He's an innocent 4 year old who would have had no idea of the kind of reaction he would get.

But you knew...or you certainly had a good idea that he would be laughed at

Gender stereotyping is wrong but you know damn well it still goes on. That is why you appear to have made him very much your poster boy at his own expense.

Woowoo - I'm always happy when I see boys at my daughter's nursery dressing up in fairy costumes (but wearing a firefighter helmet), playing with girls who dress up as whatever they like too. When a boy and a girl were fighting over who got to wear the spider man costume, the fight was resolved by one getting the trousers the other the top.

The whole stereotype stuff seems to only be really starting at school in my experience (unless it's reinforced by parents and too much exposure to advertising at a younger age)

Jesus. Funnily enough, yet again you're addressing things that haven't been said. I didn't say that nursery workers were specifically pushing boys towards transformer toys. I'm saying that people with such deep beliefs as you display about how boys and girls are inherently different WILL send subtle but insidious signals about what girls and boys "should" do and how they "should" behave to those children stuck with you. This happens whether you think it does or not, and a massive body of research is there to back the point up.