To expect the school to do something about ds being laughed at for wearing a Hello Kitty onsie?

[lecce]

He is 4 and wore it yesterday for Children in Need. The bloody thing is mainly white, and, for that reason mainly, I had tried to steer him in the direction of others, but he was adamant that was the one he wanted. He already has a plain pink lunchbox and pink Peppa Pig wellies and tells me he has had the odd comment about these being 'for girls', but he insists he doesn't mind. He is very shy but tells me he has told these children, 'Pink isn't just for girls!', though I do find it hard to imagine him saying this to a child he doesn't know well.

This morning he tells me that yesterday a few children laughed at him so he took off the onsie and spent most of the day in pyjamas. He had no dressing gown or slippers, as the onsie had covered feet, and tells me he was cold. He had to put the onsie back on to play out at lunchtime and more children laughed at him then. He has named two children from his class as being the main laughers when he was inside the school. He is 4, ffs. Why can't he wear what he likes? However, he does not really seem upset as such, and he says he didn't tell the teacher what was going on.

I am annoyed because the teachers didn't seem to be aware of what was going on. I know they can't help it if he doesn't tell them, but they should have been aware, imo, if the comments were enough to make him want to take it off. He is very happy with his wellies and lunchbox, so I feel there must have been quite a lot of comments this time. I teach in a secondary school and, of course, sometimes things like this go on without the teacher being aware, but I am sure 4 yr olds are a lot less subtle than teens! Also, I would expect a parent to bring something like this to my attention if I didn't notice it myself.

I am also a bit annoyed, though less so, that they didn't contact dh (they know he is a sahd) to bring in an alternative for him, to save him being cold and having a miserable lunchtime. I just feel that ds has had a bit of a pants day, when it should have been fun and he was so pleased with the onsie, and that I should do something about it.

On a similar topic, ds2 (yr2) tells me he regularly has, what he calls, 'mean comments' about his packed lunches - especially the fruit and Greek yogurt. He is capabale of standing up for himself, but says it's getting 'annoying'. I'm starting to feel this should be addressed too.

Dh thinks I'm being silly, but is starting to come around the more I go on. Tbh, though, I can't rely on him having a quick word with the teacher about this, as he will probably 'forget', so, if we do raise it, it will be me who does so, making it more formal as I will have to make an appointment.

AIBU to think it worth mentioning these issues, and to think that part of the role of primary school is to encourage kindness and tolerance amongst pupils?

Yes, people do get picked on in the real world. That doesn't mean it's right, or that teachers can't explain to children why bullying and teasing aren't OK. It's not a good message to those who are laughing at others to find they can get away with it. Equally it's not good for those who've done nothing wrong to find they're alone and no-one is sticking up for them.

Agree with nannyogg and babywipes

If you don't want him to be laughed at, then don't send him in girls clothes.
Simple really!

She didn't send him in wearing girls clothes. She sent him in something that was mainly white with a bit of pink FFS. Can boys wear white or is that not allowed either?

DS2 wanted peppa pig pyjamas with a frilly top and tutu! He just saw peppa. Gender stereotypes really are an adult concept but I guess at 4 kids become aware and start to alienate those who do not conform. It's. sad but true.

Just encourage your kids to do exactly what the thick ones tell them to do in future. Makes life easier.

Or not so simple, intitgrand, as you would have seen had you bothered to read the thread.

I must say that the eloquence of some posters, particularly MrsDeVere has really helped clarify my thinking. I will be going into school, though I won't be in 'guns blazing mode', not least because there are two more non-uniform days coming up before Christmas. This week we have 'wear blue to show you are against bullying' - sadly I don't think we have any blue dresses for ds to wear so that we can prove a point ironically . Think he will be happy to wear jeans and a 'normal' top to that one. However, at the Christmas party he is sure to want to wear a 'princess' dress so we need to be prepared.

I just want to emphasise the fact that he is not upset about this and it is hard for me to decide how upset he was by it at school. He has been sick today, so not sure whether being under the weather yesterday may have led to him not wanting to keep it on, or maybe he was just too hot. Although he is shy, he does seem to have an inner strength and a certain air of 'don't give a shitness' about him about this kind of stuff, but I do think the teacher should be made aware and I am interested to hear her take on it, having seen some of the views of teachers on here.

"I must say that the eloquence of some posters, particularly MrsDeVere has really helped clarify my thinking. I will be going into school, though I won't be in 'guns blazing mode' "

I.e. you agree with the people who agree with you.

I really feel sorry for schools having to deal with parents who try and project their "change the world" principles onto them, and who then get all upset that the world doesn't change and bully the teachers for not making it change.

And it's the wrong lesson to learn anyway

If a grown up DS instead pitched up in a onesie on Company casual Friday, other workmates may not laugh at him (to his face) but they will think he is a complete fuckwit person who cannot be trusted to make sensible judgements, eg when to express their individuality.

And Mummy won't be able to tell the teacher off there.

Of course all children should be able to wear anything they choose without being teased. Having said that I know u would strongly discourage my own DS to avoid wearing overtly girly things to school. I agree with the principle but would still prefer my own child to have an easier time at school.

What I find most interesting/confusing is that it seems if you parent a DS who loves pink/glitter/princesses etc, then you are told to positively encourage and support this and are an "amazing parent". If you parent a DD in this way you are considered something of a moron.

Just an observation.

I don't agree with that mrsdev. I think children learn gender stereotypes far earlier than 4. I would say btween 2 and 3 children begin to assign gender roles and expectations particularly with what relates to them selves. Clothes, toys, what mummies and what daddies do and important roles like fireman police man nurse etc. and I do very much think it's normal for a four year to then project those on to others and laugh or feel they may be laughed at by their peers.

The other aspects you list I agree that they would have a far lesser concept of.

I do think you are at fault, sorry. And I am sure you are a lovely mum. But....... Poor little lad. To send him to school in Hello Kitty...........did you really not think the poor boy would not get ridiculed. Yes children should wear all colours .......but lets be honest Hello kitty is for girls. Full stop. Forget stereotyping etc etc I feel sorry for him to be honest.

mothering could not have put it better myself.

No, Hello Kitty is not 'for girls', it is marketed at girls.
there is a big difference.
And the OP did not 'send him to school' in the suit, he chose to wear it.

And by that reasoning mylovelyboy Thomas the tank is 'for boys' only?
I think your view is incredibly depressing.

Sorry for the stream of posts, but i'm just catching up...
Canthisonebeused are you really suggesting that 'daddies' jobs are police/firemen, and 'mummies' jobs are nurses?
That's certainly not what my DC think.

canthisone

" what mummies and what daddies do" - like when both of them work and share house hold duties evenly?

" and important roles like fireman police man nurse etc."

Fire fighter, police officer, nurse ... can be done by men and women (and be played by boys and girls)

and I do very much think it's normal for a four year to then project

exactly, Widow, far more eloquent than me!

Lazyjaney Yes, I do agree with those who have agreed with me, largely because their points have had the ring of truth about them. When MrsD pointed out that children are not going to suddenly turn into confident teens if they have been given the impression that their preferences are unacceptable, it made total sense to me.

And you can stop going on about the teacher - as I have said several times, I am a teacher and promoting acceptance of diversity is part of the job description - whether you like it or not - there is a 'standard' relating to it, which I could quote if I could be arsed, but I can't. I know it exists though. How on earth am I proposing to 'bully the teacher'? So it's ok to laugh at a four year old for his choice of clothing, but speaking politely to the professional in charge at the time constitutes bullying .

Wtf would the adult ds turn up at work in a onesie? The children were told to come in nightwear - he didn't just randomly insist on it out of the blue - we had to buy the bleeding thing especially as both dc were convinced they would be cold in pjs. Still, no doubt both dc are doomed to encounter moronic, compliant people like you who will find a way of judging the most mundane of choices they make for the worst throughout their lives.

Why is it awful for 4 year olds to laugh at a peer, but acceptable for adults to tell their children other children are "stupid" and "dim" and for the OP, who is a teacher, to call another person moronic?

I can't get my head around the fact that MN is a tough place where people get ridiculed and challenged, often in an unpleasant way, and yet 4yr olds are supposed to be all understanding and sweetness and light!
Children get teased, the parent either needs to avoid it ( in this case wear a different outfit) or deal with it. Not set them up and moan.
I could start a thread where everyone turns on me, I could start one where I get teased. I avoid it unless I feel strongly and then I realise I have to deal with the consequences. 4 yr olds are not more mature than posters on here- so why expect it?

As a teacher, I am shocked by some of the views on this thread. It is unacceptable that he was teased for wearing what he wanted, and we as parents, teachers, adults need to teach children this. I can fully understand how the teacher might not have noticed, I can see how children have these views from the way that things are marketed to them, but it still doesn't make it OK. If I was the teacher, I would appreciate a quiet word so that I could keep an eye on here situation and maybe plan some lessons around at theme of tolerance/breaking down gender barriers.

If it had been a girl dressed up in a 'boy' onesie there would have been a chorus of well done her posts on here, but because it is a boy it seems to be that the posts imply he needs to conform to gender stereotypes.

FFS, what's all that victim blaming crap about?

I like the sound of your son

I Never said it was right what I said is that it happens. And it does happen.

In many house holds mummies and daddies don't share equal roles. Males are under represented in caring, nursing and social work jobs. Females are under represented in service roles. The examples I suggested are those that are very clearly happening in society that young children notice, internalise and make connections with. That are reinforced by society, and in the home.

It is happening and children learn social roles this way.

Children start to categorise between age 2 and 3, and one of the many categories they start to use is gender. Initially, up until age 5 or so, most children use slightly inaccurate markers to decide which gender a person is (hair, clothes, colours worn, toys etc.) They sre still learning - its actually fairly complicated and subtle - and that is why it is normal for this age group to latch on with relish to socially constructed but widely accepted markers of gender, such as pink/ blue or which cartoon character T shirt "marks" which gender - it makes categorising easier. When somebody mixes the "labels" they have only just learnt, its common to laugh as to their minds it seems out of place - its the same reason a 3 year old laughs if you pretend to think a cat says woof.

Its a developmental stage to categorise in this quite crude way. Most children don't do it much before age 2, but ince they get the hang of what usually "works" they do it more, but are capable of outgrowing it around age 5-6, when they become capable of more subtle categoriseations.