Actually, I am being really unreasonable. However I would like to ask those who have experienced Angel Feathers to....

[DioneTheDiabolist]

...answer a few questions that I have.

1). What does it feel like when you see that feather?

2). What are your thoughts when this happens?

And

3). What would you say are the long term (if any) effects that you would attribute to these encounters.

I understand that this belief has been the subject of some ridicule here. I have no intention of ridiculing anyone. This thread has been inspired by a previous AIBU thread, but is not a thread about a thread. I am not a journalist. I am not seeking results to use in an academic submission or publication. What I am seeking is knowledge and understanding in the hope that I can use it to help others.

IABU for the following reasons:
I only posted in AIBU for the traffic. If MN rule that I have breached guidelines, can it be moved and not deleted.

And I ask the skeptics not to put people off answering honestly. If you think it necessary, I can start another thread for all your thoughts to be discussed. Perhaps the scientifically minded of you could look at this as an information gathering excersise.

I had a nice conversation about this with a Christian a few months back.

She basically said that when you believe in the right religion and surrender yourself to jesus you get a feeling that tells you this is the right choice.

Now that sounds ok, but of course she can't show me what that feeling is like can she?

So the first problem is that I only know that's the case because she told me. I don't think she would lie, but I can't tell is she is mistaken can I? So I don't know if it really works like that.

But suppose it does. Imagine I'm born in a non christian country. To find the right one I must first surrender myself to, and have complete faith in, all the religions. I have to try them one at a time looking for the right one. Each time I must believe completely in the truth of that religion and then see if I get the feeling.

If I don't then I must stop believing in it and try the next religion. Since there are 1000s this could take a while.

Worse still, suppose on the 17th try I feel a good feeling that this might be right. Unknown to me this isn't anywhere near as strong as the genuine feeling, but how do I know that? I might think this was IT. So I'd stick with that one. Never knowing that if I had abandoned it and moved on that eventually I'd have found that even stronger feeling.

Sub, you say you're not as concerned with evidence but there isn't ANY. I have no reason to pick Christianity (again) over any other belief.

Most human 'help' has to be bought and paid for in some form or another. You buy into their 'expertise' and inflate their egos at the very least.

Ass opposed to your God, who requires praise and devotion in order to prevent him from killing your babies.

'Most human 'help' has to be bought and paid for in some form or another."

I don't actually believe that-I have a much higher opinion of human nature than that. But even if it is true, at least you are buying help that actually helps!

Back. It says somewhere near the end of the bible that all people on earth will hear about christ before judgement day.

My opinion fwiw, is that some will be like Paul. Right sentiment, wrong following. So they will more likely be the ones that will switch to Christianity once they have heard.

And the ones that have already died?

Very good point. Never thought of that. Presumably they will be told after they are woken up from death but before the seperation of goats and sheep. I will have to look it up to see how it is exactly worded.

Does anyone else feel they are inadvertently in a Monty Python sketch?

ooh, often I think life is wierd, pure weird.
I look up and think, well apparently the up is still growing and expanding. How weird.

And then I think about our bodies. We have virtually no clue how they work, and we walk around in them every day of the week. Weird.

You say 'woken up' what about people who were cremated or lost at sea or eaten by wild animals? Where will they 'wake up'? How will they wake up? Will they be the same physical person at the point of death? What if they died in intense pain? Will they have that pain? What about people that had/have severe learning disabilities? Who don't have the faculties to comprehend the message?

How far back in time will we be woken up? Will Neanderthals be woken up?

we have virtually no clue how they work

this might help you Gold

"
And then I think about our bodies. We have virtually no clue how they work, and we walk around in them every day of the week. Weird."

We do have a pretty good idea how they work, actually. That pesky science again........

the possible consequences of every action

Don't forget, your god was happy for you to use your sense of wrong and right to make a decision about Christianity before you were actually a Christian. So he thought your moral compass worked well enough then, that's the moral compass I use to work out possible consequences.

I find it alarming that you suspend that moral compass and let an outside force tell you what's wrong or right, and that it pleases you to allow that outside agent to override your own reasoning.

The mental gymnastics people have to go through to believe this rubbish never ceases to amaze me

I only read the first 10 pages of this thread, and lost the will to read the rest, but can someone tell me how this works in situations where lots of people die at once? For example, at least 10,000 people have just died in the Philippines - have the Philippines now been swamped with white feathers sent by angels as messages from the dead? And what about the other practicalities? Does the dead person ask the angel to pluck a white feather from a bird and drop it somewhere the bereaved person will find it? Or does the angel just do it of their own accord? What happens in countries where you don't get many white birds?

Gold, if everyone will get a second chance to hear about jesus then what was the point of the first chance? And do the people who already heard about jesus, but didn't believe, also get a second chance?

I agree with Hettiepetal. What a load of unutterable tripe on this thread.

I do not want to do a risk assessment every time I make a decision

What does that even mean? If I am driving in town I must constantly make decisions & risk assessments. 'Is that person likely to cross the road from behind that car'. 'Will this car pull out in front'

Does christianity mean 'Not to worry. God will turn the wheel if it needs turning and if not I expect he wanted that pedestrian to die to make some point''

Sub, can you give me an example of decisions you previously had to make risk assessments for, where you now don't because you're a Christian?

Weight of the soul

I didn't quite understand how, even if there was a weight loss at the point of death, you could leap to the conclusion it was a soul.

Could be the result one ginormous fart. Dead bodies do that, apparently.

Brilliant article that, Babylon. Thanks :)

Well, must admit it's not the first time I'd heard of this nonsense - sort of on a par with the medieval debates on how many angels could dance on the head of a pin - so I'm surprised that sublime with all her/his scientific reading hadn't explored a little more before asserting that 'scientific studies' had proved this.

This is taking me back to the threads where a Young Earth Creationist tried to 'debate' Mumsnet

This is true. This is really, really true.....

Even more basically: why are the so-called “faithful” perennially in search of scientific confirmation of their inanities? Shouldn't faith be enough? Indeed, isn't the very idea of faith as a value that one should hold fast to it, not only despite the lack of evidence, but even in the face of contrary evidence? C'mon guys, I'm beginning to think that somewhere in your subconscious you have this terrifying suspicion that you really believe in nonsense, and are therefore desperate to get science to provide some evidence, however flimsy, that you are right after all. Why not shed the superstition altogether and see what happens? It's a nice, comprehensible world out here

It's amusing that on every woo thread, religion, ghosts, healing crystals whatever - someone stomps on proclaiming that science doesn't know everything etc etc (usually to a chorus of "well said" by fellow woo-mongerers) - and then in the very next breath, they are attempting to quote some scientific study that they think supports them! Every. Blessed. Time.

This passage sums that up so eloquently.

Great link! :)

his own notes (published in American Medicine in March 1907) show that of the six data points, two had to be discarded as “of no value”; two recorded a weight drop, followed by additional losses later on (was the soul leaving bit by bit?); one showed a reversal of the loss, then another loss (the soul couldn't make up its mind, leaving, re-entering, then leaving for good); and only one case actually constitutes the basis of the legendary estimate of ¾ of an ounce.