to be absolutely freaking fuming about breastfeeding vouchers! !!!

[harriet247]

Cannot put into words how annoyed I am,have just switched on the news to be told that the government are considering offering breastfeeding vouchers to new mums.
160 quid in shopping vouchers for the first 6 weeks of the babys life and 200 if you go up to 6 months.
Im a ftm and I had crippling horrible guilt that I couldn't breastfeed. I really wanted to but my milk didnt turn up until 9 days after my baby was born. I think was something to do with 44 hour labour which ended in an emc a few weeks before my due date.
I am just furious, furious that women are being treated like foolish little ladies who need a cash incentive to feed their babies in the way the powers that be say is best.

OH, the two most commonly given reasons for not breastfeeding (not initiating) are "so someone else can feed the baby" and "don't like the idea of breastfeeding". Far smaller number of women give "previous bad experience breastfeeding. Like, a fraction.

Those stats are from the DOH Infant Feeding Survey 2005.

Letting a woman know about a voucher isnt pressure.

Upthread people argued about needing more bf support, instead of vouchers to get women to attempt bf. are you suggesting the opposite?

Midwives shouldnt encourage breastfeeding?

'The reason why those women wouldn't even start are more to do with the way they view their breasts, the way society views breasts and the fact that they think breast feeding is disgusting.'

In a lot of cases these ARE the reasons.

In other cases I am certain they are not.

It is a mixture - why are seemingly intelligent people on this thread seeming to dismiss as rubbish everyone else's perspectives and experiences, and determined to establish that they know what everyone else's reasons are? Without exception?

Reasons for breastfeeding or not are multiple and varied. Attitudes for an against it are the same...multiple and varied.

'Right, thats more likely. One person not cafes filled with them?'

STOP IT

Stop being so fucking sarcastic and obtuse.

It was not just one person, it was many. I have said that the word 'filled' was an exaggeration. It was not a complete fabrication.

The difference is Amanda that if someone criticises you for breastfeeding you can feel smug in the knowledge that they are a pleb from the underclass who is failing her child.

In fact plenty of breast feeding Nazi types THRIVE on such comments from such people as they confirm that they are doing the right thing. Saggy tits are worn with honour.

If someone sneers at you for FF, then you feel terrible because you know they are right

OHforDUCKScake makes good (non emotive!) points which make sense to me.

I personally find it disgusting that anyone could make a judgement on anyone elses choice of feeding method - personal choice is your own business. To read that in one area a breast feeder is cringed at and in another all bottle feeders are sneered at is awful.

Fwiw, as a ff (through choice, not necessity) I find I switch off when avid breast advocates start quoting WHO guidelines etc and get all het up about the benefits of bf - we all know the benefits etc, it's just white noise to me now.
If you want to get bf rates up then it has to be normalised somehow - there are many like me who just found the idea abhorrent, not because my breasts are sexual or any of that drivel, but because the idea of it made me feel ill.

I personally am dubious that paying someone to bf will make a blind bit of difference, but OHfor's "why not try it?" post actually made sense to me.

Normalising it is the battle IMO.

"Fabulous you know that's why they don't bf do you? Have you lived in a deprived area surrounded by young mums? Or studied it?
Because I assure you, your reasons are NOT why they don't bf."

OHforDUCKScake

I didn't mention 'young' mums in my post.
I don't think being deprived stops you breastfeeding either. My mum was very young and very poor, she breast fed me and my siblings.

I think education and attitude and socialization DO have a big impact on the way some women look at their breasts and what they are used for. Which is what I said in my post, wasn't it?

Thats the reason they give.

But did you know if a mother breastfeeds her daughter is 90% (!!) more likely to try breastfeeding.

Now, take a whole generation that dont try bf, they have children who grow into adults. How likely are they to attempt bf going by the above stats? Highly, highly unlikely.

The reasons they give are moot. It can be any reason at all, but if it isnt part of their norm it never will be unless the cycle is broken.

Pato by far the two main reasons given for not breastfeeding are 'want someone else to feed the baby' and 'don't like the idea of breastfeeding'. One in four women who choose not to breastfeed give this as their reason for ff.

When it comes to bf about 89% of women give their primary reason for bf as 'better for the baby'.

It's very striking that women overwhelmingly choose to ff because of things relating to themselves, and overwhelmingly choose to bf because of reasons relating to the baby.

PatoBanton

I got what you were saying and I think that the reports that we hear over an over of women being told to stop feeding in public places DO demonstrate that as a society we are a lot LESS likely to have a go at bottle feeding. When has there ever been a report in a paper of a woman being asked to stop bottle feeding in a public space?

'In fact plenty of breast feeding Nazi types THRIVE on such comments from such people as they confirm that they are doing the right thing. Saggy tits are worn with honour. '

That is fucking depressing as well.

Do people really think this way?

I think I'm going to have to hide this thread because I seem to have walked into a parallel universe.

Thankyou TFI

Glad I'm not going completely insane

" I dont think being deprived stops you bf either."

You need to do some research. Because you are very, very wrong.

I conducted a huge research survey on this very matter during my degree.

Monicalewinski - I'm afraid it's simply not true that everyone understands the benefits of breastfeeding.

Research and many posts on this board show this not to be the case, particularly among women who have CHOSEN to ff.

Probably because many put their fingers in their ears and go 'la la la' when someone starts telling them something which makes them feel uncomfortable about their choices in some way.

"saggy tits"

That's really rude elskovs really personal and frankly, quite a misogynistic comment. I do not feel smug about bf and have said nothing to suggest I do. I have made no personal comments but there you go and say that.
Hiding this thread now. Thanks for the uncalled for personal insult. Yes. I do mourn my Pre baby body. How good of you to compound that feeling.

Elskovs - enough with the name calling please!

And no talk of 'saggy tits' in relation to breastfeeding please as it's bollocks. I'm in the bath on my iPad typing this and I can assure you mine are very fine despite being 47 and having bf for 5 years

harriet I doubt that you are the target market for this initiative. When I had ds I had huge problems breastfeeding because ds was born prem and had to be tube fed for the first few weeks. I spent 12 days in the maternity ward and noted that the vast majority of younger mums were formula feeding rather than breastfeeding. I thought that was odd as I was put under huge pressure by NICU/SCBU to express and then to breastfeed when ds was bigger and well enough.

Vouchers would have made absolutely no difference to whether I breastfed or not but it may be enough of an incentive for these younger mums to give it a go.

The comment that always makes me laugh is the one spouted about babies having less illnesses because of being bf. Ds was very ill from being prem but he was also ill with repeated gastro enteritis and breastfeeding didn't help him at all.

My youngest is part of a research group (not this one).

I get paid for travel (quite a bit - traveling from where I am to London is expensive and they pay for me and my partner to take DS2, we just pay for our other kids) and get some of the best experts in the country to give him yearly check ups and have access to them by phone and email (I could see them if he had problems). This is the type of care I dream to have for my other kids but can't. This research will help a lot of people, should I feel bad because I and my child also benefit because that's the message I'm getting from this whole media thing. I would hate to be one of the women in this trial, the media is bringing a lorry load of hate on their heads - just what poor women need more of after they have a child.

This study isn't about women who can't breastfeed, it's about poor women who can and face enormous social and financial barriers that prevent them from starting and continuing to do so even if they want to. We should be glad for work that pushes at challenging the systems that do that, not spitting on them.

Its not a competition though, its pretty shite to have a go whichever feeding styles.

One is not worse than the other.

what I mean is that it's not the deprivation, the poorness, it's the attitudes and the socialization that come with that deprivation.

I accept what you are saying about the research I was just somewhat taken aback at your misinterpretation of my post.

"In fact plenty of breast feeding Nazi types THRIVE on such comments from such people as they confirm that they are doing the right thing. Saggy tits are worn with honour."

see - what you have done there is be an absolute twat with your choice of language.

you lot are too much.

this is A TINY STUDY

it DOES NOT USE NHS OR TAXPAYER FUNDS

it IS AIMED AT WOMEN IN A COMMUNITY WITH LOW RATES OF BF INITIATION

it is NOT PENALIZING OR JUDGING ANYONE

i am convinced that early motherhood skews your perceptions. i am years away from infant feeding. in my everyday life i probably am around women who ff or bf in front of me but i couldn't say for sure, cos i really don't give enough of a shit to notice. most people don't.

truly.

the starers and tutters and commenters are rare. i was convinced they were everywhere when i was feeding my two, but they weren't. they aren't now. there is the odd person, but cafes are not filled with swivel headed judging busybodies.

yeesh.

I have 'lost' certain parts of my body to pregnancy and having babies, but ironically my breasts, having fed three babies and one of them till he started school, have survived in remarkably good condition and aren't remotely saggy.

I think that's one myth needs busting right there. If you will pardon the expression.

It just makes you sound prejudiced, and a bit stupid really Elskovs - and like it matters what our breasts look like anyway. fool

Bisjo - you don't know how he would have been without your milk.

I went to a talk given by a senior consultant neonatologist a while back who described breast milk as literally life saving for many prem babies. He said he tries to get parents to see it as a medicine and not just a food. :-)