to be absolutely freaking fuming about breastfeeding vouchers! !!!

[harriet247]

Cannot put into words how annoyed I am,have just switched on the news to be told that the government are considering offering breastfeeding vouchers to new mums.
160 quid in shopping vouchers for the first 6 weeks of the babys life and 200 if you go up to 6 months.
Im a ftm and I had crippling horrible guilt that I couldn't breastfeed. I really wanted to but my milk didnt turn up until 9 days after my baby was born. I think was something to do with 44 hour labour which ended in an emc a few weeks before my due date.
I am just furious, furious that women are being treated like foolish little ladies who need a cash incentive to feed their babies in the way the powers that be say is best.

YABU - I totally agree with piddlepuddle. Also worth stating its just a trial so the results will be reviewed before its extended to other areas.

I think yabu. I understand where you are coming from but this isn't actually about making ff mums feel bad for once. Unlike the posters and health warnings on the side of formula.

Mine never came in properly in 2 weeks for either. Totally different experiences with births and feeding but both dropped weight like little stones . I had the guilt and pnd with dd1, it was horrible. Once I'd got over dd2 being admitted etc I was able to accept that for us formula was the best way of feeding. Breastfeeding is usually best not always op, often when mums switch for whatever reason it was the best thing to do.

Actually, it makes ME really cross the way the media are reporting this. On doing more reading it turns out this is a university research project involving 130 women. So the real news story is... 130 women paid up to £200 for taking part in university research. But that wouldn't get us all talking, would it?

Lljkk, I have never had any benefits either but it's not about the envy of a financial incentive. It's about recognising that the pressure to breastfeed is far to high already. So its in an area of 'high deprivation' so typically this will be a lot (not all) of young single mums who have been herded together in social housing.

No amount of money would replace the sleep deprivation, the need for help with simple tasks and the support and friendship required to see you through what for anyone is a very difficult time.

Such an incentive is completely missing the point on what is really needed!

Sirzy is right, there are no "ff vouchers": there are Healthy Start vouchers which you (I) can use for formula or for normal milk, fruit and veg. So as an ebf mother I used the full value for food for me, which a ff mother wouldn't have been able to do. No distortions there.

I maintain CCTs are stupid: they do not support sustained behaviour change, they are a v blunt tool (can't cope with varied answers to "are you bf", only y/n), they are patronising and they are expensive. Bf in UK or HIV in Tanzania, I think they're an overstated and v limited tool.

I agree the media reports of this are not giving an accurate impression of what it is. For me the discussion should be around how can we help new parents enjoy parenthood and in turn raise well adjusted happy children.

Maybe they should also give cash incentives to those that provide a smoke free home?

Cash incentives for those that don't need a prolonged hospital stay or CS.

Whilst it is obvious there are benefits to BF you can't financially incentivise mothers for something that for SOME would be out of their control.

Acrually i'm not sure the pressure to breastfeed is too high. i think the problem is it's very patchy. where i am all that was mentioned to me was a question in mat appointment about what i was intending to do. no help either time with breastfeeding on the ward, no pamphlets etc even and on ward i was the only one breastfeeding both times. I do realise it's a fine line but from my limited
experience more could be done to promote
breastfeeding.

Meggril

the benifit to the NHS it's saving millions (think it mite actualy be billions) in treating babies who are bottle fed for heath problems.

Really? Please link to this stat.

This will sound wrong, but why are people who formula fed so sensitive about it?? It doesn't matter! It's a choice - just a way that the baby was fed, doesn't make anyone a failure, bad mum, baby poisoner...
I think that this IS a way to encourage those who may not have even considered breastfeeding as a choice to give it a go. If they don't want to do it, then they won't will they?

Its because you are made to feel like a bad mother by some. When your baby is admitted to hospital for weight loss 'breast is best' posters are all over the walls.

The hospital admissions thing is interesting - dd2 was admitted because she was breastfed and I doubt this is counted in the stats.

Yes you do see posters about breastfeeding in hospital - then you get given a bounty pack full of leaflets advertising stuff sponsored by formula companies, I honestly think it evens itself out!

Actually there is a lot of pressure on bf mums because they use growth charts based on ff babies (or at least they used to)

I've done a very quick google, only 10% of babies admitted for gastroenteritis in 2011(last year for data) were ebf, ebf reduces the likelihood of needing grommits by more than 2/3, less likely to contract pneumonia if ebf and length of hospital stay shorter.

And that doesn't need much digging or consider the health benefits to mothers.

I don't think cash incentives are the way forward, but I think researching an incentives effect is a more reliable way of testing this than asking the opinion of mnetters

There are very few people (statistically) who are unable to bf for medical reasons, in fact the op itself is some one who may have been able to bf with the right support (after a few days of mixed feeds). There are people who don't want to bf. and say they couldn't for medical reasons, and there are lots who would bf with the right support and the right views on bf in the community. It makes sense to research the most effective, and cheapest way to increase bf rates.

I was wondering why ffs are so touchy.. does it even matter?

For a long long time vouchers were given to help with the cost of formula.. I don't know if HS vouchers can be used like that now. So what if they use a cash incentive? its probably aimed at mothers who wouldn't have considered breastfeeding at all (as has been said), not to insult those who couldn't.. its not about you.

I would prefer to see the money channelled into more support though so more people get over that initial hump.. understand what their boobs are doing and how to tell baby's getting enough milk than just giving cash out. Less people might quit.

The reason we're toucy gamerchick is for that first six months of your baby's life it absolutely does matter to midwives and HV and it's just another thing to fail at after a difficult birth. I did 2 weeks of agony with both of mine which is telling. It hurt like hell with DD1, but I felt under immense pressure to 'make it fair', so did another 2 weeks 2 years later with DD2 so that she would have an equal chance of doing OK at school and being healthy. It seems ludicrous now, 15 years later, but pushed me into PND.

Also, vouchers are bloody insulting to women - you won't breastfeed because of your child's health, but ooh look - shopping vouchers!

If they want to improve bf stats they should make checking for tongue tie part of the newborn check AND offer to snip it there and then, if present.

It seems to be the route of so many problems and the reason a lot of mums can't continue (mangled nipples, poor weight gain, endless feeding sessions, low supply as a result of poor transference, painful reflux/wind) and it can be sorted so easily if caught early, yet there are no checks for it.

It seems a bit strong to be 'freaking fuming' about some mothers, presumably fairly economically deprived if they qualify for vouchers, getting a bit of extra help to give their babies the best start in life. Do you know how bitter and mean that makes you sound?

Lots of people FF, it is their choice and their right. Why be so down on mothers who make a different choice getting some support that may help their babies? I just cannot understand your level of rage over this.

Why be so down on mothers who make a different choice getting some support that may help their babies?

Surely support to help the baby would be much improved post natal services to provide the support that new mothers need to help establish breastfeeding? THAT would be a good use of money.

Paying someone to feed their child a certain way isn't IMO good use of money.

I do get really fed up with people who say anyone can successfully bf if given the right support. This is not true. I am lucky that I gave access to great bf support 6 days a week where I live, and I saw a lactation consultant from NCT and paid for one privately. I persevered for a long time. It just didn't work out well for us. Some babies just don't feed well enough. My daughter became dehydrated and ill at 4 days and again at 14 days old. It looked and felt like she was feeding well, but she wasn't. I did everything I could. It just wasn't working for her/me/us.

The problem, especially with young mums in uk, is that bfing is not seen as the norm. They are not engaged with the idea at all. It's not "cool" and is seen as something older mums or posh people do. I don't think vouchers will change that. It's an education issue.

Yanbu.

If they want to support new mums I'd rather see the money spent on better post-natal care and longer, fully paid paternity leave for dads. The current situation where a mum is chucked out of hospital after 48hrs, expected to deal with visitors and dad going back after 2 weeks doesn't help.

How will they monitor this anyway?

I don't believe it is about envy, what a nasty comment.i could breastfeed and would not have have wanted an incentive. My mum was not able to breast feed due to a medical problem so I would find the system unfair, not only did she have to buy formula in spite of desperately wanting to feed she would not have been entitled to the vouchers even though she tried.

Even Dr Hilary disagrees with it

I assume by formula vouchers you mean the healthy start vouchers? They're about £12 a month so one tub of formula. They're for people on benefits or low income and also for fruit and veg so bfing mother's on low income could get them for that.

Agreed the money could go into better bfing support, also agreed the cash incentive is already there with bfing with how much you save.

I think the overwhelming thing that strikes me with this is how desperate we are in this country to get people to BF, that we'd pay them! We have one of the lowest bfing rates in Europe, despite the governments endless campaigns. I think the issue isn't with people who actually physically can't for whatever reason but with those who choose not to. Usually they choose not to because they find the idea gross, believe their breasts are a sexual object etc. We need the normalise breastfeeding, we're working on it but aren't there yet.

I'm not sure I like the bribe, also not sure how they'd prove someone was breastfeeding. But I'm not sure what else will work anymore... Sadly money (or shopping vouchers in this case) talks.

BTW I have never noticed that there is pressure to BF I was lucky to have lovely HV and MV who supported me when I breast fed and did the same when I had to switch later on. I just find it very hard to believe that a good use of public money is to pay people to do normal healthy functions regardless if what they are.

Genuine question from a non-Brit...John Lewis is fashion, yes?

If so, if this is to make bfing "fashionable" it sort of undermines the good reasons for bfing.