to be absolutely freaking fuming about breastfeeding vouchers! !!!

[harriet247]

Cannot put into words how annoyed I am,have just switched on the news to be told that the government are considering offering breastfeeding vouchers to new mums.
160 quid in shopping vouchers for the first 6 weeks of the babys life and 200 if you go up to 6 months.
Im a ftm and I had crippling horrible guilt that I couldn't breastfeed. I really wanted to but my milk didnt turn up until 9 days after my baby was born. I think was something to do with 44 hour labour which ended in an emc a few weeks before my due date.
I am just furious, furious that women are being treated like foolish little ladies who need a cash incentive to feed their babies in the way the powers that be say is best.

[MrsMook]

There is already targeted inequality of BF support. When I went to BF club with problems with my 9wk old I was asked about my home visit. Blank look. Wrong postcode. The BF club is in a neighbouring area where they are channeling the resources to improve the BF rates. I understand the reasons for that. I understand that this is not a time when lots of money can be invested evenly. I would like to see extra targeting of women who have difficult recoveries after birth. I didn't drive for the first 8wks after DS1 was born due to EmCS with various complications. With DS2, the 3rd degree tear and worsening of SPD meant that I couldn't sit in the drivers seat or use my leg for the pedals in the first month, so getting out to access support was impossible (first time it also took me a month to be able to walk to the bus stop 300m away)

There was no antenatal class for 2nd time mums. First time the 2x 2hrs were pretty perfunctory, and didn't really go into what BFing is like. Most of my knowledge and support has come from online forums.

I can see people in certain social classes that wouldn't otherwise think to BF being incentivitised to think about or try BFing, but it's an empty gesture without the support to help get feeding established, especially if they are more likely to be a single parent and not know anyone with BFing experience.

Other than early problems when establishing feeding, I think a big barrier is about the confidence to feed in public, which makes people use bottles of milk (of whatever source). Quite how you address that I'm not sure- maybe in antenatal support groups?

[melika]

The government should ask Katie Hopkins about her views on it.

[DontmindifIdo]

Surely you're better off finanically if you bf anyway? It's £11.99 per tin of the comfort baby milk DD has (that reduced lactose stuff), I's say average a tin a week (she's 5 months so is going through more than that now, but while I bf until 7 weeks, I know the babies who are FF then get through less than a tin a week, so I think over 6 months it averages out). So if you FF from day one, you're about £312 worse off by the time your baby is 6 months old. That's enough to buy yourself this rather lovely bag

[TheRealAmandaClarke]

I think it's a bit pointless without better support for breastfeeding mothers. Especially in the very early days.
My HV was great, but I didn't see her until 2 weeks. The midwife (ime) was almost anti bf, and if I'd not been stubborn and obsesseddetermined I would have been feeding both of my DCs formula from day 2 or 3.
But increasing breastfeeding rates is good for babies.

[Sirzy]

Reading on the Internet is fine but a lot of new mums need the practical support - someone to sit with them and help with latching, babies checked for tongue tie etc etc.


I am not buying the idea it would save the NHS money either numerous posters on here have said they have had to give up for mental health reasons, I know a few people in real life who had to give up for the same reasons. I would imagine any money saved on children's health would end up being spent of mothers health instead unless a lot is invested in proper support for mothers

[10thingsihateaboutpoo]

YABU. They are nit introducing it yet, they are trialling it in 3 small areas first. Should it successfully increase rates of breastfeeding then it can only be a good thing bearing in mind the benefits for both mum/baby.

I appreciate some mothers cannot or choose not to breastfeed, but for those that feel bad they couldn't would missing out on some free shopping really make it worse?! Just because someone can't do something they would begrudge others being encouraged to do it?!

[JRmumma]

sibling you may have had time to sit on the internet and find what you needed to establish bf, but that is an offensive and massive generalisation you are making there that those of us who got no support when they needed it should have just sucked it up and got on with it. How dare you!

If the resources aren't there in the NHS them surely if this study led to money being dolled out to individuals who CAN bf would be misused, because as you say, the NHS doesn't provide support to those who can't/find it hard for whatever reason!

eatriskier your situation sounds very much like mine. Fortunately the NICU were great at helping me establish my supply and i managed to express and bottle feed bm for 6 weeks. But in that time and after countless hours trying to bf properly i had to admit defeat and give up. I know how you feel being terrified that baby wouldn't get enough if you just 'got on' with breast feeding after being so poorly at birth.

[mrsjay]

YANBU to be annoyed I know it looks but isn't it research from a university so it is voluntary and they dont have to do it I am sure if a woman who is thinking about breastfeeding she will try it this is going to be monitored babies over a period of time, I dont think it is a bad idea if women want to do it, and if they offer BF support then why not give it a go,

[tiktok]

How does a tiny investigative trial of a few score of women in a deprived area 'demonise' formula feeders? Why does it cause other women to fume with anger?

The majority of babies in the UK are formula fed. Well over 90 per cent of babies get formula at some point. This is hardly a hidden minority. FF is the norm.

The incident Miaow describes is shameful and good for you for complaining.

Where do the mothers criticised by their friends for breastfeeding 'cos it's 'disgusting' or 'perverted' or 'selfish' complain to? Or the mother I spoke to (I am a bfc) whose mother-in-law told her she would never speak to her again if she breastfed, because the MIL thought it was being done to exclude her?

And I am sickand tired of people raising questions about the research into breastfeeding. OF COURSE the research includes HUNDREDS of studies where the background etc of the participants has been taken into account - the more breastfeeding, the fewer hospital admissions and the less illness, and this pertains across all social backgrounds. In fact, some studies show that in babyhood, breastfeeding wipes out the health disadvantage of being born poor and deprived.

And I don't want to hear any more anecdotes about people's kids who were ff and who have never had X infection - as if that proves anything.

If we are going to have a grown up debate about these issues, please lets use grown up information.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

Yes there is information on the internet. I could read how to do surgery , doesn't mean I would be able to go actually do it. What use is the information when there's no one around to help you. So, you read up and suspect baby has a tongue tie. Great , so now what? Will you be able to instantly find a dr to refer you to get it snipped? Can you afford the private treatment , the breast pump to help keep supply up?

Will the computer hold your hand every morning when you have been up all night trying to latch your baby?

[MulberryHag]

To me, it's not about promoting breast feeding and demonising formula feeding. What makes me annoyed is that WHY are we spending (yet more!) tax payers money on this drivel! People need to make up their OWN minds about feeding their babies, smoking, drinking, behaving etc. they need to decide what's best and healthy for them in all areas of their own life and then bloody we'll do it! This "nanny state" we have in this country is ridiculous. The government tries to take all responsibility from people and pay them to make what THEY feel is the correct choice.
Grrrrr!
Spend my tax money on poverty and education, not on paying other women to do something they could do for freez!

[eatriskier]

meli
don'tmind now if someone had put it in terms of rather nice handbags
jmumma I'm very glad you got help. Sadly my hospital is one of the worst maternity units in the country and unbeknownst to us were going through their major crisis at that time. Thankfully by the time ds came there was vast improvement in staff levels.

[thepig]

This isn't about people who struggled with bf.

It's about trying to get mothers who don't even want to try, in areas where no one bf...to try. The idea presumably being that the more women in that community that bf, the less stigma is attached to it, and ultimately everyone benefits.

Maybe that won't happen. But why not find out? So many flat earthers on this thread would rather not know either way.

I'd happily support a similar study into smoking in the home though I don't think it's feasible.

Stop taking it as a personal affront. Unfortunately life is not fair, and we all get differing levels of support.

If the study shows that more babies are being bf and it's value for money, then you'd have to be pretty bitter to begrudge people in a disadvantaged community a benefit just because you weren't eligible or couldn't bf.

Let's see if it works and let the science rather than the emotion do the talking.

[ovenbun]

The thing that gets me is the breast versus bottle debate....just makes mums on both side feel rubbish...

We all know breast feeding has a multitude of amazing health benefits for baby and mum...if there was a medicine that could do for babys what breast milk does we would all be queuing outside the chemist to buy it!

Not everyone can breastfeed, and this is difficult for those who would love to but cant for health reasons....but this doesnt make the benefits of breastfeeding less true, or mean that people shouldn't be able talk about them.

Equally most of those who have breast fed know that the first weeks are often painful, completely exhausting and ugly. I don't think most people get prepared that this is what to expect while establishing feeds. Beautiful pictures of contented 4 month olds gently suckling at the breast don't prepare you for a screaming biting newborn who us frustrated and cross that your milk supply is so tiny at first.

neither breast or bottle feeding mothers should be judged for their way of feeding whether through choice or otherwise.

More support is needed...especially in a ff society when you are less likely to have a mum or friend who breastfed and can offer help and advice...i think busy healthprofessionals could at least signpost mums to good sources of information and help like
National Breastfeeding Helpline 0300 100 0212
or helpful online videos:
www.bestbeginnings.org.uk/watch-fbtb

[mrsjay]

I like your comment about not taking it is a personal affront thepig this is just research and wanting mothers to at least try I dont think it demonises (sp) it is just a scheme to get mothers to give it a go with an incentive attached, I am sure they wont be just chucking tesco vouchers at people and leaving them to struggle I am positive there will be support in place
, I did not BF i did try with dd1 and not at all with dd2 for my own reasons I have no guilt about not breastfeeding well dd is an adult so that would be a long time beating myself up about it, I just think any sort of support and incentive to at least give it a go is a good thing,

[TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy]

It's voluntary medical research and the funding is coming from said research group (and government grants that they won), not from the NHS (and NHS research funds couldn't just be moved to frontline services anyways). This study is looking at both whether this improves breastfeeding rates and how the vouchers are being perceived to see if it can be used in other programmes. The information could be valuable and the women who have chosen to take part in this research both benefit from vouchers and being brought into the research process.

I'm from the area this is being trialed, an area where I've been repeatedly discouraged from breastfeeding by medical professionals because 'I shouldn't worry about it' and given information on help to get formula instead - there is still the idea here that breastfeeding is for hippies and those desperately poor. I was the only one on my ward to try to do so and still being discouraged. These vouchers aren't the only thing that's going on to help change this mindset and culture - we have breastfeeding groups but not all midwives or HV will signpost women to them, we fought for the Healthy Start vouchers to be useable for fruit and veg to make them more useful for breastfeeding mothers (and those with milk allergies), but the current culture in my area and poverty creates it own barriers to making choices and research into how these things work and can be overcome will both aid areas like mine and beyond into other issues and problems that we are working on trying to solve.

130 women choose to take part in medical research and getting paid for it by a medical research group, we have no idea what additional aid they may be being given (I know in the research my DS is part of, there is a realm of help available beyond the headlines). There is research on breastfeeding and births all the time, I think YABU to be so negative just because this one involves financial incentives, particularly for women already receiving Healthy Start vouchers (which means below poverty line).

[JRmumma]

giles well said. I looked on the internet AND went to an NHS breast feeding workshop (but don't get me started on the pointlessness of that) but this wasn't what i needed. What i needed was an actual person to spend time helping me do it. Maybe i could have tried harder in an ideal world, but id just had a baby and put as much effort into trying to get help that i had the time and energy to do. It wasn't enough and is that my fault or the fault of the NHS for not providing support for something that they claim to so strongly advocate?

You can pay as many people as you want to bf, but only those who manage to get going with breastfeeding will still be the only ones who do it in a system where those who don't find it too easy get no support!

[ThinkAboutItTomorrow]

YABVU and over the top in you reaction.


It is a small scale trial to understand if monetary incentive can overcome the perceived social stigma around BF in deprived areas.

Can we agree that research shows More breastfeeding is a positive outcome for babies? The research is fairly clear that there is a health advantage. This in turn leads to lower nhs bills for BF children.

So testing methods to increase bf is an appropriate social policy.

If the test proves that money does not incentivise then fine. We know empirically that we need to look at other ways. If it shows that actually for some more deprived areas it can make a difference then that's a brilliant discovery and can be applied more broadly.

[WhereIsMyHat]

Radio 5 are discussing this at the moment ad it's a very sensible discussion so far raising many valid points.

[Andcake]

Torn - I am still gutted that i did not breast feed ds as much as I wanted due to him losing to much weight and having to be hospitalized. i then pumped for nearly 6 months with top ups - it ruined my first 6 months with baby as I was pumping not cuddling - but i knew that bm was best but now i wish I had some perspective back then. Even feeding ds with a bottle of bm i was sneered at in public and felt ashamed to feed him with a bottle out!
vouchers would not have helped me more support would, better investigation into a possible tt very early on.

and of course a baby who wanted to bf not just root, cry fall asleep on the breast or just not latch at all.

without formula or a pump we would never have left the hospital - pre formula he probably would have died

vouchers replacing ff vouchers for deprived fine - but money should also be put into support.

i hate people who get judgey about ff without knowing the cause

[mrsjay]

who sneered at you did they really sneer or was that your own perception did other women honestly tut that you had a bottle in your babies mouth, How long are you going to hang on to the guilt and gutted feeling because you will be eaten up with it, let it go your son was fed who cares what you think other people thought about it, line up a bunch of 5 year olds you can not tell which one was ff and which one wasn't

[JRmumma]

Just to add, in not saying that research into incentives to bf isn't worthy, but paying someone to breast feed will only get those who can do it easily to actually stick at it, unless good quality support is also provided. Its important that this is part of it.

[JRmumma]

I hope the research has a control group of support but no vouchers as id be interested to see the difference in rates of bf at 6 months.

[Coupon]

I think you'll find that those who want to bf give it their best shot anyway

This.