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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be absolutely freaking fuming about breastfeeding vouchers! !!!

483 replies

harriet247 · 12/11/2013 06:15

Cannot put into words how annoyed I am,have just switched on the news to be told that the government are considering offering breastfeeding vouchers to new mums.
160 quid in shopping vouchers for the first 6 weeks of the babys life and 200 if you go up to 6 months.
Im a ftm and I had crippling horrible guilt that I couldn't breastfeed. I really wanted to but my milk didnt turn up until 9 days after my baby was born. I think was something to do with 44 hour labour which ended in an emc a few weeks before my due date.
I am just furious, furious that women are being treated like foolish little ladies who need a cash incentive to feed their babies in the way the powers that be say is best.

OP posts:
Mylovelyboy · 12/11/2013 18:06

OH my ds was bf for two weeks. He is never ill. Cannot remember last time we were at the doctors. He has lovely skin, teeth and hair. granted he has lots of veg and fruit. Does well at school. But he is thankfully never sick. The way the bf people on hear carry on, is that if a child is not bf then they will be really really unhealthy and that is just so not true

BasilBabyEater · 12/11/2013 18:09

Oh well, I suppose all those silly mothers who need support should just put their babies to their breast and let history take its course. Hmm Er, that strategy doesn't work in our culture Duckssafe, if it did, the same number of women who start breastfeeding, would continue to do so for as long as they wanted to. Since that clearly doesn't happen, why do you think that is, because mothers can't be arsed to access all that fabulous support?

It's very nice for you that you live in an area where you can get support, but loads of women don't. I couldn't get hold of the LLL in my area, she called me back 10 days after I'd left a message on her ansaphone. I'm not blaming the LLL, they're all volunteers and they know their stuff, but a nice woman fitting in her phone calls in between her job and her other stuff, is not a strategy to ensure that every mother who wants to BF, gets the support she needs to do so.

I had a HV too, she didn't know the first thing about how to support me to BF - I knew more about BF than she did which considering that I know very little about it, was somewhat discouraging.

I really wish people wouldn't make bald statements like "There is support" when that doesn't tally with other people's experience. You're lucky, you have support in your area or you don't need support. That is not the experience of many many other women, if it were, we wouldn't need to have this conversation about BF because everyone would simply get on with it and succeed if they wanted to and access all the support they needed to. That doesn't happen.

Mylovelyboy · 12/11/2013 18:13

And the reason i only bf ds for two weeks is because I did not need support. Was actually like OH and put baby and breast and he fed well. I could not take the constant feeding every half hour to an hour all the time. When ds was on formula we had a four hour routine. Perhaps I had not that strong milk. sometimes breast milk is not enough for a child and I proved that by my ds being more content and going longer through feeds. And it wasnt the formula trick. It was a fact

BasilBabyEater · 12/11/2013 18:13

Oh FGS Mylovelyboy.

Are you still doing that "can't tell a BF from a FF baby"?

Shall I remind you about my grandmother who smoked for about 75 years of her life and never had a day's ill health in all her 100 years? Does she prove that all the research about smoking is just rubbish?

Strewth.

OHforDUCKScake · 12/11/2013 18:14

I agree its not great everywhere, hense my intense want to persue in that career.

However, some women (a lot in fact) CAN put a baby to the breast and let nature takes it course. Unfortunately a lot of those women might not even be attempting breast feeding in the first place.

Mylovely I have a 2 year old who has been exclusively breastfed and never once had formula. He has severe allergies, severe eczema, severe asthma. However, your one child and my one child are absolutelt not relresentative of the whole world population.

Mylovely it has been tried, tested and studied in depth breastfeeding IS better for the baby. This isnt opinion, and your child is not proof. It has already been proved that breast milk is better. Better for beating illness, for growth, preventing cancers, preventing obesity, and IQ.

OHforDUCKScake · 12/11/2013 18:15

(Amongst ALL the other things breast feeding is good for!)

Strumpetron · 12/11/2013 18:15

It's actually very very lazy of the government. It's easy to chuck money around.

We'd benefit much much more from better breastfeeding support.

OHforDUCKScake · 12/11/2013 18:18

Strumpton how does breastfeeding support get a whole array of women in deprived areas to attempt breastfeeding in the first place when they already told the MW they intend to FF?

I wish people would stop coming in with that line and read the actual thread.

Strumpetron · 12/11/2013 18:26

By BETTER support aimed at women in deprived areas. By support and education tailored to them, that isn't patronising, that doesn't make breastfeeding seem like this holy grail made only for middle class mums. I come from one of these 'deprived areas' you speak of and as a major breastfeeding advocate (volunteered at BF centres, shadowed midwives, raised money, ran petitions etc) I'm not a dunce who doesn't know what they're talking about.

I find it immoral that the government wants to have a financial hold over women to breastfeed. Women should breastfeed by making an informed choice, made available to them by support and education. Making a decision that's best for both them and baby, not breastfeeding because they're so fucking poor they'd do anything for an extra bit of cash.

Echocave · 12/11/2013 18:27

I agree with Redpipe's early post that the stats about ff babies needing more health interventions later (and therefore costing the state more in many cases) are not likely to be due solely to the fact that these babies were ff but to a more complex range of socio economic factors and/or due to birth related issues that required ff which need medical intervention in the early years.

From hard won and miserable personal experience, I also agree with the poster who says support and actual checks for tongue and lip tie should be part of the early checks. However, I realise that current NHS practice is not to consider tongue tie as a routine factor in breast feeding difficulties.

I think what I'm saying is that this money could probably be better spent elsewhere.

tiktok · 12/11/2013 18:28

Mylovelyboy I am sure you are a nice person, but your posts are so naive, they give you away.

You say "The way the bf people on hear carry on, is that if a child is not bf then they will be really really unhealthy and that is just so not true"

Please point to any post here that says anything like this.

Thank you.

Strumpetron · 12/11/2013 18:28

And not only better support, but more work towards 'normalising' it. I hate that because it is completely and utterly normal but it's still seen as taboo. We need national health campaigns, adverts, promotion, etc something to really put it out there instead of it being something women only see when they have to make that instant decision.

Mylovelyboy · 12/11/2013 18:31

tiktok thank you. What are they saying the?. Ice recons she can tell a mile off at the school gates who has been bf and who has been bottle fed. Look at her post post.

tiktok · 12/11/2013 18:39

I read the post. I still don't see where anyone is saying ff babies will be 'really, really unhealthy'.

I think that post exaggerrates the visible differences, to be honest - but with 2 samples of 1000 kids, and sufficient information on health, history, growth, you'd be able to establish a difference. But it would not mean the ff kids are 'really, really unhealthy'.

Mylovelyboy · 12/11/2013 18:45

OK lets forget my opinion. (bet your all pleased about that Smile). I dont always agree with strump on serious subjects. But she does have a very valid point. The money would be better received in campaigns and adverts etc. It would help teach those that are not educated in bf and give them something to go away and think about.

morethanpotatoprints · 12/11/2013 18:46

I think it is a good idea as breast is considered best for a baby.
I didn't manage much with any of mine, I tried, failed and various mix of things going wrong. My dc are all ok, but I was guilty first time round, and cried buckets because I couldn't do it.

All this aside I wouldn't begrudge another woman to benefit because I didn't. That is the point of your OP so YABU

OHforDUCKScake · 12/11/2013 18:50

That wont be enough Strumpton otherwise why are there low breastfeeding rates in my local poverty area when there ARE support worker aplenty? And adverts, poster, advice?

Its not enough.

foreverondiet · 12/11/2013 18:55

Well, I think the money would be better spent on breastfeeding support, FOR ALL not just those on low incomes - 24 hour hotline, someone comes out the next day to help you etc.

BUT you do need to eat well when breastfeeding on average an extra 500 calories a day, so bearing in mind that this is aimed at people who would get free formula, I don't understand why its so upsetting? Its just an alternative to vouchers for formula. Or am I missing something?

thebody · 12/11/2013 18:59

mothers should if course be presented with the facts that bf is a healthier option for baby.

bf should be seen as normal in public, the scrapping of the ridiculous page 3 would help,

this money would he far far better spent in employing more midwives and bf councellors.

but still at the end if the day it's the mothers choice. lots want to, lots try to and give up and again lots don't want to and don't.

perhaps we should pay fat middle aged men vouchers to give up their cars and walk.

it's always women's choices though isn't it that seem to be questioned?

RedToothBrush · 12/11/2013 19:08

I don't think that anyone has commented on this, but this scheme won't cost the NHS £200 per head even if it was rolled out nationally. It probably won't cost them anything.

Instead what they will do, is get big companies to support the scheme out of their own pockets and they probably will do.

Why? Because its great advertising, marketing and way of getting women who are starting a family into their store (and then will perhaps be loyal to that brand) and will probably spend more than their £200 in vouchers in the end. These companies wouldn't support it unless there was a financial benefit to them somewhere in the mix. We should be aware of the commercialism thats going on here and just how much of a golden egg a woman who has just had a baby really is - its not just about the ethics of offering £200 to incentivise something.

The cynic in me, has to think that this is perhaps an idea dreamt up, to win the female vote at no cost. (Whilst potentially getting someone to make a profit of it). Its an attempt to make it look like they are taking steps to address a problem, but the reality is that it fails to even understand what the real issues are. If real thought had been given to the issue, they could have come up with something better than this, and its that level of contempt that massively insulting as much as the patronising offer of money.

As someone else said, this is about getting women to comply and making them prove that they are obeying to health workers. Just throwing this out here, but a woman has a RIGHT not to want to breast feed - this type of pressure is alarming as it in some ways removes that choice. It doesn't matter if breastfeeding is ten thousand times better, using financial incentives and supervision is unethical because it affects the decision you make. To some women it may no longer make breastfeeding a completely free choice. There may be situations where the financial carrot ends up being the stick to beat women with. Don't forget the group that this is targeted at, is perhaps more likely to be one that is more vulnerable for various reasons; including abusive relationships.

And what happens next? A financial incentive to have a smear test?

In addition to this, its women being targeted massively here. Yet, as many pet subjects on Mumsnet testify to, its not just the attitudes of women that are the problem here. Far from it. Women are not somehow 'to blame'. And this is where the whole debate tends to go. They aren't trying hard enough, or they don't care about their baby enough, or they are selfish or more interested in their own looks etc etc.

So where is the education of men and what responsibility do they have here in supporting women to breast feed? Its too easy to say that women who are in the target groups are more likely to be single mothers - we aren't just talking about support they might get from their partners. We are talking about the wider support in society; from partners, fathers, brothers, friends, employers, work colleagues and complete strangers. Its not just a woman's problem and that needs to be tackled here. That means starting education in schools to brake taboos and challenge a whole bunch of negative views about it.

This scheme is nonsense, because regardless of what the outcome of the actual study ends up being, even if its positive it has some pretty nasty assumptions and views about women, their role in society, how they can be blamed and manipulated and forced into something that they might not otherwise have done without some sort of coercion.

Hideous idea. One that those doing the study should be ashamed of supporting.

DoItTooJulia · 12/11/2013 19:08

I think it makes people angry TikTok because some women have a huge battle trying to breastfeed and incentivising breast feeding with vouchers can seem to miss the point. Those women that tried and couldn't breastfeed get another kick in the teeth.

I don't know what the answer is in terms of helping women breastfeed, I don't think it is a simple as more peer support, although undoubtedly that's a great place to start and would go some way to help.

catellington · 12/11/2013 19:14

But there are already vouchers for formula.

bubalou · 12/11/2013 19:42

I tried to bf ds for a week. He wasn't latching on and was screaming all the time and when he tried it was pure agony for me.

Health visitor came to see me after a week - ds had lost 7oz and I told her about my nipples bleeding and how much pain I was in Blush the mean old cow said 'let me look'. I pulled off the nipple pad that was stuck with blood and she simply said 'carry on, breast is better for your baby - even if it's uncomfortable for you'.

Fucking witch Angry I got a second opinion the next day and it turns out he was tongue tied hence his inability to latch. They told me to bottle feed straight away as the poor bubba was starving and to express for as long as I could.

It breaks my heart I couldn't breast feed and it's not fair that I would be excluded from something bcoz it wasn't a choice.

MyBoilsAreFab · 12/11/2013 19:46

Not read whole thread but YANBU. I had real problems breastfeeding both of mine. With DD1 milk took ages to come in, then he fed constantly for months. With DD2 had agonizing pain every time he latched on. With both I persevered, often in tears, because I was determined to do it.

How on earth are they proposing to monitor this anyway? How long do you have to bf to qualify, do you have to pay it back if you stop etc?

TheFabulousIdiot · 12/11/2013 19:48

Didn't someone in this thread or the other mention a study which suggested that when asked why the didn't want to breastfeed a large percentage of women said the thought it was disgusting or am I imagining this?