to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

what's interesting (I've never been there) but a friend of mine who lived/worked in Peterborough commented (not necessarily in a bad way) on how Polish the area had become. if this makes her racist so be it but it's a valid comment.

and certain towns (forget which) DO have certain countries moving/migrating there.

It's not awful at all - near where I work you see Polish delicatessens etc - you can get any food you want, Somalian, Ethiopian etc

actually I find it quite interesting and refreshing.

But in Birmingham, certain areas have 'been' Irish, then Asian, then Somalian. What's the issue?

"If Scotland becomes independent, the figure for England becomes much more relevant."

And if it doesn't, then it won't.

You're acknowledging that your figure is currently less relevant than Chaz's figure of 256 people per square kilometre and would depend on a hypothetical set of circumstances in order to become more relevant, but then you insist on using your less-relevant figure for comparison with Belgium and the Netherlands. Of course she's completely correct that they have a higher population density than the UK.

Heartbroken - there's no issue for me - re these areas - it's just a comment.

HOWEVER what I will say is that it CAN become a problem if these areas don't mix, as we all know very well certain sectors don't mix.

Which areas don't mix? I'm from Birmingham - everybody mixed. You don't get to choose.

eofa - no, we can't, she was born here and therefore deserves everything just handed to her, dontcha know

To whoever it was complaining about children in our schools who don't speak English - every single child I have known who has English as a second language (and that'd be 100s of children) has picked up the language and caught up by the end of one term. And some of them learn English much quicker than that. Your argument is utterly ridiculous.

I don't think we can call some of the posters here racists though. They are much more generally hateful. I reckon xenophobic bigots is a more accurate description.

Quite right about EAL kids. They learn incredibly fast, and obviously generalising but where I work are on the whole extremely keen to do well. I work in a school where a large number of students have English as an additional language and kids in the school as a whole (not just the EAL ones) make great progress compared to the national average. They all benefit from an interesting cultural mix, and are clearly not held back by any issues with speaking English.

Same in mine, Eofa.

My dd1's best friend (she met at church, they go to different schools) is an immigrant. She comes from DRC. They had to leave, her father was in opposition to the government and his life was in danger.

Dd1 is bilingual (English/Gaelic), friend is trilingual (English/French/local language).

I know there are many immigrants. But I'm proud of the fact that we accept them. A couple we know were on the bus to the airport to be deported (back to DRC) and found out at boarding they'd been given residency here - their ds is one of my ds's closest friends.

I love our multicultural country. I don't care if 70% are non-white - why should I? I'm struggling to see the problem?

Pachacuti The reason I distinguished between the the two sets of figures is not only because of the prospect of Scottish independence, but because Scotland has a relatively small immigrant population in relation to England (Centre for Population Change). Some Scottish MP's say that Scotland needs more immigration, not less.

Don't mention the roads lol packed is an understatement. I feel we are overcrowded there are blocks of flats going up everywhere then before u know it they are full up I think it's scary

Why are you scared of people?

So if there are less-populated bits of Germany with relatively small immigrant populations we can cut them out of the German total for the purposes of comparing population density?

No Cat she's scared of blocks of flats and roads. Common phobias. I'm scared of lamposts.

I'm scared of UKIP getting into power. That gives me nightmares.

Pachacuti Of course not - what a strange thing to say. A country must be considered as a whole because of national social policy. This is an issue in the UK because of the potential for fragmentation and devolved assemblies making potentially different social policies, hence the breaking up of the population density figures into figures for both the UK and for England alone.

Imigration into the UK is absolute twaddle. We are a nation of immigrants, palaeolithic humankind trotted over here from western Europe during an Iceage, Fast forward to the neolithic, humankind paddled over to denude the country of trees. Romans, Vikings, Huguenots, Dutch, Ashkenazim.

What is actually wrong with the policies of this country, is lack of full integration into our society. For a start the Windrush generation came over here to do the poor paid low level cleaning type jobs, that couldn't be fill by the post war generation.

This current wave of immigration is being spurred by jobs that ARE available, but are not being filled by our current native population.

I live in a very (36 languages supported) multicultural bough of London, what I see is not multicultural integration but more of a silo-cultural.

Take the English language, Shampoo (Hindustani root), French, Latin, Greek, Dutch, German, Scandinavian. Doesn't that tell you something about the greatest quality of the British. We absorb and make people our own.

What's wrong with the NHS, isn't immigrants (a fair old amount who work for the NHS), but successive governments who have squandered one of the greatest post war assets we've had.

Another this that is brilliant about the way the United Kingdom and its integration is that we have never suffered from the evil genocidal fascist tendencies of Europe, Bosnia, Serbia, Germany, Russia even the French like to kick Roma out of their home country now on shallow pretexts. The wonderful cable street battle came about because we as a nation will not tolerate ultra nationalistic foolishness.

Think Blue Mink not Rivers of Blood. As a side bar if you read the full speech Mosley makes exceptances for Indian doctors, dentists etc.

Heartbroken - I'll direct you to a friend of mine who lives in Oldham and says the Asians don't mix.

My friend from Peterborough said the Poles tended not to mix.

Birmingham I don't know so if you say they mix then they do.

PERSONALLY I've found some cultures mix well some don't. I have friends from all over (Poland, Slovakia, France, Bulgaria, Spain etc) but eg if you're Spanish like my friend's ex BF - he didn't speak much English, DID NOT WANT TO speak much English and worked with Spaniards. He would say himself he preferred not to speak English.

May I also say my parents have a Holiday Home in SW France where there is a bit of an English ex-pat influx and we flee if we see 'les Anglais' in Intermarche LOL JOKE, but that's a migrant thing, yes?

And this is a extra for people who have a colour issue with immigration. The first historical evidence of Africans arriving in the UK is a cohort of Nubian Auxiliary troops stationed on Hadrians wall 3rd century AD. The first known West Indian community was in Cardiff at the turn of the 18th Century, then later on in Liverpool. The first recorded Black soldier in the British Army is depicted in the The Death of Major Peirson painted in 1761. Fast forward to the 20th Century thousands of Poles laid down their lives in the defence of Britain.

Hmm, I wonder how my Spanish Grandmother managed to become mayor of a very large London Borough.
Helloboys I suspect your friend's ex was just an arse. There are some thriving and well mixed Spanish speaking communities in various parts of London, have been since the war when many of the women and children from Gibraltar were shipped over here.