to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

ChazIf Scotland becomes independent, the figure for England becomes much more relevant. The figures are not "in my favour" - what on earth are you getting at? They are facts. Even if you prefer the figure for the UK (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland) it comes out at about 258 per square kilometre.

"Heartbroken" The OP was raising a number of issues - population being one of them. Throwing pointless insults about is juvenile.

Yes, it is. But being racist is disgusting. Like I said, are you saying that 98% of posters on this thread are wrong? Are we all stupid?

Some of the biggest racist British people I have ever encountered have been second generation immigrants. It simply isn't enough to say if you are/have a partner who is not white then you can't be a racist. A bit like alf garnet saying he has some black friends

Yes, Theo but apparently there's no racism here, we're all just misunderstanding the OP.

Cantdo
You do Belgium and Holland have higher population densities.

do know

heartbroken you are doing it again. Try to argue rationally.
I think it was the OP talking about "English voices" that upset people and diverted them from the point about population growth and overloaded systems.

Doing what again?

I have a beautiful, well-modulated RP English voice. I am bi-racial though. Does my voice still count?

Chaz No - only the Netherlands has a higher density. England has 410 people per square kilometre and Belguim has 350 people per square kilometre.

I am concerned, and don't mind saying that I don't like living in my own town anymore due to the migration that has happened. I feel like I'm on holiday when I go to town as there are so many foreign voices it un settles me.

A teacher friend has 50% English in her class, the rest are eastern European.

If voicing all this makes me a racist then hands up, I'm a racist.

But why are you concerned Worm? Why is it a problem? What are you scared of?

The OP asked for positive stories regarding immigrants and if you read through the thread you'll find loads/

My DH is an immigrant. I have lost count of the times we have heard the 'forriners coming over here, getting full benefits, taking our jobs' etc etc lines. This is not said to my DH though, rather it is said with the spirit of them expecting DH to agree with them, because, funnily enough, he is white and speaks English.

Though, apparently, none of them are racist . . .

I haven't read the thread, but the first line is ridiculous. I am from the UK, and am (shockingly) not English! Also, the UK is not an island. I have been told to go back to my own country by idiots who don't even know what country they live in (the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, by the way).

As I am sure many people have pointed out, a recent study showed that Eastern Europeans are net contributors to the economy (i.e. they put in more than they take out).

Also, if services are struggling because of an influx of people to a particular area, this is an issue with the service provision, not with the people.

YABU, OP.

I'm scared my children won't be able to find housing and jobs when they are grown up, I'm concerned they won't get the best level of education because their teachers can't cope under the strain of teaching so many eafl kids..........

This is all scaremongering, Worm. As I've said, read the rest of the thread and you'll get a broader understanding of why immigration is good for this country.

Part of the reason we need immigrants is because our birth rate is so low.plus from what my dh says(who owns a local business and emto do unskilled jobs,most of the people that work for him are eastern european,and they have tried local people but they dont want to work,they come for one day then say why bother if they can live on benefits.They have over 50 jobs going at the moment but no one wants them.

I have read the thread heartbroken, I'm talking about my own experience of walking down the streets of the town I was born, my experience of having a baby in 1999 compared with the one I had recently, where the hospital had to close the ward as it was full. Not referring to any scaremongering at all. I have my own opinions.

And as I've already said Worm if your kids got ill, without the immigrant workforce propping up the NHS in this country, the NHS would be even more stretched than it is now.

Anyone who thinks if only all the foreigners left we'd have marvelous schools and lovely hospitals, care homes and whatnot all well-resourced and pretty, is very very naive.

I'm guessing the people who are anti immigration are mostly so on a cultural basis. I don think many would bat an eye if it was Canadians or Aussies.

Joysmum - definitely, it's always accents and the lack of English that get thrown out, and feeling scared of different coloured skin, ffs.

Did anyone see the documentary about Japan and the massive problems it is about to experience with its inverted population triangle?

Italy is facing the same issues, low birthrate, aging population...

I'm a granddaughter of an immigrant (for economic reasons) - from Germany actually but nevermind. In fact most people prob including OP are descended from immigrants or migrants.

My stepfather is an immigrant also from Ireland - partly for work and because he wanted a life outside his small village etc... he started work here at 15 building the flyover in Ladbroke Grove way...

The things I DO get annoyed about are when immigrants etc claim benefits and don't work but then again France, Germany etc give benefits to such people and OUR SYSTEM is wrong IF it gives such benefits.

I know plenty of immigrants from countries all over the world who work, pay taxes, buy property etc. In London/SE there IS a problem with overcrowding whether due to migration or not I DO NOT KNOW. Lots of people move to London/SE for work whether BRITISH BORN (can't believe I'm typing that) from eg Bristol etc.

the OP does sound a bit racist when she says about 'foreign voices' but I hear that every day where I work - German, Farsi etc.

Oh and Germany/France do have immigrants - eg Turkish in Germany and for example French speaking countries tend to come Ivory Coast, Seychelles, Guadaloupe, Martinique.