to be concerned re. what is going on re. immigration and population growth?

[ClarityJane]

So many non-English voices, especially East Europeans, but so many different nationalities en masse it seems have moved here in the last 10-20 years - completely unprecedented historically. And in an already very over-crowded island.

Today I read Labour MP Frank Field say that the population increase due to immigration by 2031, i.e. less than 20 years, will be approximately 10 million and will require building something like seven new Birminghams! Or another London! Based on latest predictions in the papers today anyway.

Did Blair and Mandelson envisage this when they signed up for European Community rules on immigration and refugees? Or did they cynically not care because it meant cheap labour, cheap votes, increased profits (via membership of the European Community).

Did the architects of this policy not consider how it would affect housing, jobs and education and the resulting massive investment needed there, and the over-crowded population we have already.

I believe we have never been consulted or told anything honestly about what the consequences of EC membership was immigration-wise, if indeed there was ever any plan (doesn't seem to be, just a kind of opportunistic carpetbaggers philosophy approach of selling England by the pound).

I feel deceived and hoodwinked really. But are there any more positive thoughts on this? I find it v. depressing.

Ah, yes, I wonder which statistical table holds the fake-tan orange figures? I might have to cross-correlate the census data with the economic data on sales of tanning products, but then how to factor in sunbed use?

Its amazing how this myth has developed that the UK is Europe's only magnet for immigration and how we are suffering under an intolerable burden and yet the facts are totally different. Other European countries have a higher proportion of refugees and plenty of other European countries have a high proportion of immigrants in the population.

They're all coming to get us I tell you...

or in the words of Father Ted - Feck it!
(I love the kicking Bishop Brennan up the arse episode)

I came late to this thread, as usual, and have to say I'm a mite disappointed to find only one mention of goats, on p15.

mylovelyboy IS Godfrey Bloom and I claim my £5.

chazs

"So I hear you're a racist now Father?"

In addition to JaquelineHyde's Kumhata kwako (love it, by the way) can I add "Pogue mahone" (the indigenous language of the country of my birth, before immigrant bastards like myself came over in long boats)?

Funnily enough I was chatting to a couple of the mums at DS's school yesterday. One Romanian, the other Argentinian. They enrich my life. As do my colleagues (thinks of 20m radius round desk - Netherlands, Canada, DRC, Russia, India, China, Japan, ...) And I live in what most people would say was a very white, non ethnically diverse bit of the UK. The more the merrier, I say, and if people are worried about the population growing too fast, we could have a one in, one out policy - each interesting immigrant offering more cultural diversity coming in is balanced by an EDL or BNP member being shipped off to Rockall.

Father Ted CANNOT be misogynist, LEM.

Why, they asked him to judge the Lovely Girls contest, they wouldn't have done that if he didn't love women!

"The "Black" (Black British / Afro Caribbean or African) population of Britain is stable and has remained stable for about thirty years. The "Asian" (predominantly Indian) population of Britain is growing at a rate which will have a fundamental impact on the nation."

The Black Caribbean population is stable. The Black African population of England and Wales more than doubled between 2001 and 2011, as did the Black Other population. That's a higher rate of increase than any individual Asian ethnic group (it is outdone by the "Other Asian" group, but that's partly because of a rejigging of categories between 2001 and 2011). The fastest-growing Asian population is Chinese, followed by Bangladeshi and Pakistani; Indian comes in last (although is still by a small margin the largest Asian population in England and Wales, so you got that bit right).

I do not think the poster is being racist , far from
It she is worried as am I. My childrens school has had to build 4 new classes to take on more children most of which are from the EU and cannot speak English. My husbands first language is not English btw so I not racist but I worry what is going to happen , we just cannot fit everyone in can we ? Or maybe we can ? We start building more highrises and home educate out children ourselves

There are as many rural schools closing as there are city ones expanding Lonely.

Our area is desperate for schools yet when planning went in to build on old derelict land everyone signed a petition saying no :-/

Excellent policy Lurcio

Lonely Our area is desperate for schools and the only site deemed suitable is on the only skate park in the area. In the poorer part of town. We're not in the same area are we?

There's a big issue with schools, which isn't exclusively to do with immigration. People move around a lot more, and some schools are full to bursting. I remember being in temporary classrooms over 20 years ago because the school was too small, and there were hardly any immigrants. I think governments have not invested what they need to in schools.

I don't believe that the OP wanted to talk sensibly about immigration. There have been lots of links provided (and not read).

"when you scratch the surface of the figures you find that first and second generation Asian immigrant families averagely have 4.2 children whereas indigenous white population families have 1.8 children. So... while it's true that the birthrate among "British" mothers is the main cause of population increase it is also true that the percentage of the population who are indigenous white people is decreasing exponentially."

Birth rate among Asian families has decreased and is currently (as of 2011) running at an average of 3 children per family (still higher than other ethnic groups, but as the rate has steadily come down there doesn't seem to be any particular reason to expect it to stop coming down, still less to expect it to suddenly shoot up again).

The OP was raising the issue of population increase and of how many people is "too many" in this county. This is very subjective. At 5 am in a field in the Chilterns, England might not seem very crowded. Travelling on the M25 on a Friday in rush hour seems to say something else. The only way to think about this sensibly is to start by looking at statistics. England (not the UK, especially as the prospect of Scottish independence looms) covers 130,395 square kilometres (Land Registry figures). At June 2012, the Office of National Statistics put the population of England at 53.5 million people. That works out at 410 people per square kilometre. Compare this figure to Germany - 234.5 per square kilometre (World Bank figures 2012) and the EU as a whole at 112 people per square kilometres (2006).

Have you actually read the whole thread?

The OP was never about population size, she was all about immigrants. She talked about 'all these non-English' voices. That was when people pulled her on racism.

Heart, I'm going to report it again just for fun.

I don't think MNHQ give a shit, frankly.

heartbroken yes, I have read the whole thread. I suggest that you read the second paragraph of the original post.

cantdo

Why are comparing England rather than Britain to France and Germany. Why haven't you left Bavaria out of the Germany figure or Alsace out of France?

I have read it, and all the other nonsense the OP followed up with.

Are you suggesting that 98% of the people on this thread are wrong? That the OP was honestly asking a simple question about population?

Are you that dense?

Not that I am for a minute suggesting you left out the less densely populated regions to skew the figures in your favour.

Its weird if you walk around and never hear an English voice.

This was the post from the OP that pissed people off. What do 'English voices' have to do with her argument?