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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Shouted at during work meeting

113 replies

Gryffindor · 06/11/2013 20:51

I have just returned to work after 8 weeks off (fell ill on holiday - very genuine, work provided with certificates, accompanying GP letters etc).

I work in a very stressful environment, think male-dominated, high-pressure, long hours etc. On my first day back I joined an audio call with 5 colleagues from across my organisation who sit in different teams. One man, who I have had some issues with in the past (he can be very intimidating, and has said work-related things that he later denies) shouted at me after about 30 seconds and said:

"Shut up Gryffindor, you are really annoying me".

Unfotunately, this is nothing unusual, but after being ill and also out of the work mentality for 2 months it has really upset me. I hadn't even said anything controversial, I had literally just started talking. Unfortunately, I work in an unpopular function which is often villified for "hindering business".

My direct boss is lovely and supportive, but despite being a huge household name organisation there is literally no support in place for people (particularly senior men) to be accountable for their actions. Far from being an isolated incident, this kind of thing happens all the time, I just feel as though my armour has been chinked and I'm struggling to move on. AIBU to be upset?

Conversely, if women behave in anything other than a demure manner we are criticised for being "agressive" and recommended to have training in influencing and communicating. Total double standards.

Sorry, this is a total rambling mess but even writing it out is helping me feel better.

OP posts:
BillyBanter · 06/11/2013 22:48

Just because it's accepted in the company doesn't stop it being bullying ffs.

I wish more people would join unions.

Want2bSupermum · 06/11/2013 22:51

You need some quick lines. I worked on a trading floor. After a three week stint off work I came back (two weeks spent in the US and week spent with the worst flu ever) and one of the guys shouted at me for being off for three weeks. I told him 'So you missed me then - great I will remember that when it comes to bonus time!' I had one of the guys put his hand up my dress 'to see if I was indeed wearing suspenders'. I hit his hand so hard with my phone it broke. No one double crossed me or touched me after that.

You need to have it out with him. There are two ways to deal with people like this. The first method doesn't work. The second method is to put your balls on the table. Once you have done it you will find the other men leave you alone. If you don't feel well get another week or so off work and think about looking for another job so you can leave if you want to.

Talkinpeace · 06/11/2013 22:51

Billybanter
I wish more people would join unions.
Unions are an utter irrelevance in many professions where offices are small and decentralised
and are heading that way in many other areas as supply chains lengthen

WallyBantersJunkBox · 06/11/2013 22:51

Perhaps say.."rigggght, if you've quite finished now, "twuntface" (insert his name here), perhaps I could finish answering the question...?

msmoss · 06/11/2013 22:51

BillyBanter I'd actually say that it makes it institutional bullying.

I don't think Unionisation is necessarily an automatic solution though

BuntyCollocks · 06/11/2013 22:52

Would love to know the bank! I'm in the same industry and know the type. Uk bank or other?

PastaBeeandCheese · 06/11/2013 22:52

I agree with mylovelyboy and ivykaty has given you a good line to use.

I'm the only female at my grade in my department too. I would have said something there and then along the lines of 'everyone else comfortable with that' and spoken to him later to tell him he's a prick and I won't hesitate to deal with him if needs be.

I do appreciate you've been poorly though and I know how I felt when I came back from maternity last year. You just feel a bit vulnerable and off your game I think? Get it back OP and don't give one inch on Friday.

Want2bSupermum · 06/11/2013 22:52

Hi Talkin Your post has me laughing. I know exactly what you mean.

SkullyAndBones · 06/11/2013 22:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

garlicbutter · 06/11/2013 22:55

Hmm. A lunatic bully, in a bullying organisation, contributed very significantly to my ultimate breakdown. Although I 'won' in the end, it cost me far more than it cost him. Being praised for my strength was no compensation.

With hindsight, I should either have [a] left the job quickly; or [b] physically intimidated him. He was bigger than me, but these days I know bullies are easily threatened.

On the other hand, Gryff, if this kind of shit is what passes for 'banter' at your place, I recommend telling him nobody's interested in his fucking opinion, you haven't finished. Or say "Manners, Geoffrey" in your best Strict Matron voice.

Original poster
Gryffindor · 06/11/2013 22:57

Wow there are some amazing women on here. Love the comeback lines, coping mechanisms etc. I would usually have some to add myself but need to build back up again!

My bank hasn't been named here (well maybe the LIBOR thing, but that could be anyone) but some of you are vair close with functional areas... Trust me I would love to name and shame but obviously cannot...

As for moving jobs, I've had itchy feet for a while but I have it really good in some ways and enjoy some perks that would be tough to walk away from. Keeping my eyes open for good opportunities though.

OP posts:
damejudydench · 06/11/2013 22:58

I can't remember anyone saying that behaviour was acceptable, msmoss.

In an ideal world the Op should be able to keep a log and report the twit to HR but she's already said that HR is outsourced. No doubt she will become the problem if she starts making waves up the food chain.

Yes, it's all wrong but this is the reality in some corporates!!!

WallyBantersJunkBox · 06/11/2013 23:00

I love "Manners, Geoffrey" Garlic GrinGrinGrin

But please say it in a "To the Manor Borne" Penelope Keith accent!!

garlicbutter · 06/11/2013 23:02

YY, Wally!

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 06/11/2013 23:02

"I dont think its bullying. Its the way some environments are. Some are aggressive and you have to have a thick skin."

What shite. Just because bullying is widespread and commonplace doesn't mean that it's not bullying. Just means that you're working in a horrible, bullying culture, rather than dealing with one individual bully.

WallyBantersJunkBox · 06/11/2013 23:05

My immediate HR contact answers into the twunt I had to deal with. Absolutely no help at all. No one tells her anything for fear of it being reported back.

The senior HR manager for the region told me that if I didn't like it, I should leave, and that any complaint to more senior management would be filtered through her anyway.

I see pictures of her on FB out drinking with said twunt at various functions. F*ckin' top HR feedback and advice that!

No union here. If you complain to the works committee you will be very quickly restructured out.

Andro · 06/11/2013 23:06

"How utterly devastating for you! Now, as I was saying "

I work in a very different field, but misogynistic attitudes are a common problem here as well...though thankfully my reputation is such that few have the stupidity guts to try and take me on.

utreas · 06/11/2013 23:08

I have had jobs in the past where I have both swore at colleagues and been swore at by colleagues its never bothered me tbh.

damejudydench · 06/11/2013 23:09

Gryffindor, there is always something else out there if you want it. You just need to look.

In the meantime, don your coat of armour, wade into battle and don't take any shit. You're obviously a smart cookie who has done well. Don't let some twunt ruin it for you.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 06/11/2013 23:13

What's all this balls-to-the-wall rhetoric about?

Want2bSupermum · 06/11/2013 23:26

headsdown When you work in an aggressive environment you have to stand up for yourself. HR are powerless to do anything to change anything. At the bank I worked at HR was seen as irrelevant. Senior people never gave me a hard time but if I was going to do something I would talk to the head of the trading floor. They decide who gets paid what and have the power to shut these people up. If you go that route the others in your peer group will smell blood and see you as weak. Your life after that is doomed. Easier to just stand up for yourself and 'balls to the wall'.

enriquetheringbearinglizard · 06/11/2013 23:29

Sounds very much like my DD's role and situation - not a UK based organisation.
She's very good at seeming to suck it up and give it out, secure in that her position is a whistle blowing one, they can't fall too foul of her. However, behind the scenes she acknowledges that it's unpleasant and old boys' club, not who dares wins and inept half wits are promoted far beyond their entitlement.

She has both HR and a Union but in reality for her, that course is a hiding to nothing.

This is not how it's meant to be, but it is how it is.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 06/11/2013 23:32

It's just a lot of very crotch grabbing, matcho, militaristic chat for one thread: "smell blood"; "don your coat of armour, wade into battle"; "put your balls on the table"; "toughen up"; "ballsy"

The problem is an aggressive environment, huh? And the sum total of the advice on this thread is to counter aggressive behaviour with equally aggressive behaviour. And then you complain about the culture?

damejudydench · 06/11/2013 23:48

Have you successfully managed something similar in a different way, Headsdown?

I'm all for a softer approach but I haven't seen it work in the type of environment the op has described.

Andro · 06/11/2013 23:56

HeadsDownThumbsUp - if you've never worked in a predator/prey environment it must seem odd, but noting else works without a complete culture shift...and one person can't change an entire culture! I doubt it helps that these environments attract highly aggressive, very dominant personalities (along with a selections of jackasses) - strength is the only thing they respect.