to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

All religions have nasty elements, so why give to the nasty elements rather than the decent ones? There are many Christians and Christian charities that do a lot of good around the world. OCC and Samaritans Purse are not among them.

Thebody, there are many charities supporting less fortunate children who are not run by hate preachers who make inflammatory comments about the religion that many of the conversion targets adhere to.

And to address the other comments about support a charity you do agree with - it's possible to both support other charities and try to inform people about SP. The issue is exactly as illustrated by this thread - SP trade on people's trusting nature's and the fact that people want to give something tangible. They rely on the fact that children will want to be involved with giving toys. They target their audiences with exactly the 'right' amount of information about their ore business of evangelism- in the US they are much more upfront that their aim is to convert people to their brand of fundamentalist Christianity.

Sorry for rogue apostrophe, and it should say core not ore.

I have no problem at all with most Christian charities (although as an atheist, given the choice I'll go for a secular one) because unlike Samaritan's Purse, most reputable Christian charities - Christian Aid, Cafod etc - draw a very clear line between distributing aid and doing good works, prompted by their Christian beliefs, and using those good works to spread their beliefs. They do the former, they do not do the latter.

The way that Samaritan's Purse/OCC uses supposed charitable works as a vehicle for evangelism is unethical, and would be condemned by most people working for proper Christian charities.

I'm really sure why people can object to the op from writing a letter and asking for help to make sure her facts are correct.
You all seem pretty sure that people are happy to give to this charity, whatever the charity believes or how they operate, or whether they are homophobic, racist or xenophobic. So presumably there will be no change to the charities profits or the amount of shoeboxes donated or given out? (Or the carbon footprint, VAT collected by the treasury, tax relief not given to the charity or the amount of children who are not being taught to think about their charitable giving but rather how important it is to feel good about yourself?)
Problem solved-Op has wasted her time in writing a useless letter because nobody cares and there will be no difference in the charity support. apart of course from the people who do care and will instead donate to something useful and ethical as we did here www.goodgifts.org/how-it-works

Sadly, there's people out there who would rather shut their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and go 'LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING' instead of being open minded and reading into the realities of what's going on, just because it is easier and they don't want anything to compromise the 'warm fuzzy feeling' and the feeling of righteousness they have for participating in the shoebox appeal. To me that is lazy. Anyone can throw money at a cause they know nothing about/ have no personal investments in. I would rather do my research about a charity before I try to assure myself that I have indeed done something good or useful, and in this case I feel my money and time would be better invested in something that places no judgements, conditions or ties on vulnerable, impressionable children. I certainly hate the idea of these children being made to believe that Jesus is the reason why they have presents, not the good kind donors who actually put them together. Taking credit for someone else's kindness is wrong, IMO.

Of course, if you know all the facts and make an informed decision, and still decide it is a worthwhile cause, then fair enough. But don't rage at the OP or others because they want people to be aware of what is actually going on behind the scenes.

He, he. Am finding the people worrying about homophobia then worrying about Muslims in the next breath unintentionally hilarious.

my Muslim friends aren't homophobic and neither are my Christian ones Seasicksal so I am missing your point :)

seasick, you've got a very strange sense of humour, as well as a bit of tendency towards gross generalisation

see what I really can't understand is the total unwillingness to belive that all faith based charities have an agenda?

why the outrage? if course they do. that's the whole point if faith isn't it? to sure as the word. all religions do it.

the show box is a simple way of allowing kids to shop and pack and send a gift to other children.

the faith messages of course are included but can also be dismissed.

are you saying those recieving them are too stupid to assimilate??

awful lot of hot air and indignation here from safe and warm posters who have no bloody intention of going to any poor country and actually helping build schools/ hospitals.

no charity is all good and all bad!! very lazy view and very innocent.

I disagree with injustices committed in the name of Islam, but that doesn't mean I think the best way to deal with them is to get primary school children fund an organisation which is both run by a homophobic religious bigot, and whose main aim is to attempt to bribe children to convert to fundamental Christianity.

Those of you who don't understand what the problem is:

1. Fundamentalist Christians actively support campaigns that take away rights from women and cause further pain and misery to the already impoverished 2)Fundamentalist Christians pretty much despise you unless you are a Fundamentalist Christian
2. Fundamentalist Christians support Israel fir one purpose only - so that their End Times beliefs can come to pass (basically Israel is their sacrificial lamb)
3. Fundamentalist Christians would sooner step over you in the street than lend you an actual helubg hand (unless you fit nice and neatly into their world view) Fundamentalist Christians are in general no better than facists.

I realise these are sweeping statements...butter spend a bit if time around them, watch and listen....they are sonera of the most grateful people I gave ever cone across and the only thing they are interested in is conversion...if they can't convert you you are ship on their shied.

New take that nasty attitude, put them in a position of power over vulnerable needy people and watch what happens...

People absolutely should know the roots of OCC - Imt ashamed to say I didn't

Hateful...not grateful

There's no reason to support only faith based charities - there are many others. And there are far more efficient ways to build schools and hospitals than sending a box halfway around the world. I know I am fortunate to be safe and warm, which is why I donate to charities which support people who aren't.

I expect most of us donate to many charities don't we??

I certainly do.

thebody - what has packing shoeboxes full of gifts got to do with building hospitals and schools? That's not what Operation Christmas Child does. OCC is all about using material goods to entice children into bible classes. Not a worthwhile goal, in my opinion.

Education and healthcare are, however, the kind of thing that mainstream charities like Oxfam and Medicins San Frontieres get involved in, without any religious agenda, which is why I have standing orders to them every month. I'm also thinking of sponsoring a child through Plan, which I think will give my DCs a much better idea of how you really help poor children in other countries than sending off a Christmas shoebox.

And as I said in an earlier post, it is perfectly possible for charities to be set up by Christians, and operate on Christian principles, without connecting their work to evangelism. Lots of charities do it all the time, and are very open about their work, unlike Samaritan's Purse.

And can I just say "well said" to tracypenisbeaker.

I think there are a lot of people who are just happy with the warm glow of self satisfaction at having done something nice for impoverished kiddies, without actually examining what they are contributing to.

I do donate to many charities too, thebody, and some of them are Christian, but I check them out as thoroughly as I can first. I don't donate to those whose activities involve spreading hate. Why is it so difficult to inderstand there is a huge difference between Christian and Fundamentalist Christian, thebody? Why insist on lumping them all together instead of evaluating each charity on its individual merits? Willful ignorance is by far the worst kind. I have also spent six months in living in Central America volunteering for a secular charity btw as you seem to think no one has the right to criticise OCC without the proper credentials for some reason.

And another well said to tracypenisbeaker, you got it in one.

Has anyone read the other thread?

"no-one is suggesting that a shoebox packed with gifts to the value of £10 is going to HELP a child in need"

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/charities_noticeboard/1862903-Operation-Christmas-Child?pg=1 Brian Bennett, Head of Communications for Samaritans Purse UK said that on. Their actual head of communications doesn't think it helps.

So why is anyone still doing it?

Has anyone read the other thread?

"no-one is suggesting that a shoebox packed with gifts to the value of £10 is going to HELP a child in need"

Brian Bennett, Head of Communications for Samaritans Purse UK said that on that thread. Their actual head of communications doesn't think it helps.

So why is anyone still doing it?

see what I really can't understand is the total unwillingness to belive that all faith based charities have an agenda?

I don't think this is true. Many faiths have charity as part of their faith, but this does not have to be linked to 'missionary work'. One is often connected to the other, but there is no reason why this should be the case.

My bad, I was sure I had read somewhere that they were separate but google does indeed confirm they are not. In which case the issue of funding homophobic groups is important.

The practices of this charity are completely contray to Christian belief and, imo, to the practices of a good charity. Charity is a gift. It is not conditional. The shoe boxes are conditional - Muslim children converting or already being a Christian and going to a certain church. The gifts are not given out based on need.

So OCC are allowed to evangelise about their beliefs to vulnerable children, possibly of different religions, but the OP isn't allowed to politely voice her beliefs to her local community?

Irony, haterz.

we are athhiests and give our kids gifts at Christmas.

this has not made them rabid Christians.

our local catchment school is C of E.

hasn't made us Christian.

I susiect a shoe box of toys is just that really, a gift, I am absolutely sure those reviving them are just as able to dissemble and choose too.