to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/10/11/haiti_doesnt_need_your_old_tshirt?wpisrc=obinsite this article is not about shoeboxes but I thought it had some good points about giving money and not goods to impoverished countries.

I don't think YABU at all, a lot of people will think that it's a lovely idea to give a child a Christmas box and won't look any further into the charity doing it.

I would write something like, "I read with interest last month's piece about OCC and agree that it is great to think about others in need at this time of year. However I personally have some concerns about OCC's evangelical Christian aims. For those of your readers who think similarly there are many other charities who run similar schemes (give examples)."

Brief, to the point, non-defamatory and doesn't mention the school. Does that help?

You give your kids gifts at Christmas but you don't set an example to them by giving money to homophobic causes. You don't preach to them against homosexuality or preach against the use of condoms to stop the spread of aids and recommend abstinence instead, or send them to classes on fundamentalist Christianity in order to get their christmas gifts. So why is it okay to do these things to other people's children just because they're poor? Because by giving these shoeboxes to OCC that's exactly what you're doing.

It must be very hard to accept that you've been swindled when you thought you were doing something good. It must be very hard to stand up for what's right when everyone else in the school is seemingly against you and you think they would consider you a selfish Scrooge for objecting. So I understand why people would want to stick their heads in the sand.

we are athhiests and give our kids gifts at Christmas.

this has not made them rabid Christians.

our local catchment school is C of E.

hasn't made us Christian.

I suspect a shoe box of toys is just that really, a gift, I am absolutely sure those receiving them are just as able to dissemble and choose too.

Thebody - have you missed the bit about Samaritans Purse spending $150,000 of charitable donations on anti-gay progaganda? That's your £3 taped to the box. Are you really ok with that?

Just for clarity, the charities which run Toilet twinning (Tearfund and CORD) are both Christian.

It doesn't surprise me that Christian charities evangelise because that is what Jesus asked Christians to do - "make disciples of all nations". I agree that the lack of clarity makes OCC seem duplicitous, but when you understand the call to make disciples it should probably be expected that volunteers for Christian charities will talk about their faith with those they encounter.

I suspect that OCC see sharing faith as the real gift, not the shoebox.

Great article here from an aid worker

Why does this have to be so hard?

talesfromethehood.com/2010/06/14/why-does-this-have-to-be-so-hard/

The way aid should be done:

1. Understand the need that needs to be addressed, the problem that needs to be solved.

2. Plan a solution based on that need, on that problem.

3. Implement the solution to meet the need, fix the problem.

The way far too many amateurs want to do aid:

1. Have a solution (used clothes, volunteers, bunch of soccer balls, a gadget, etc…)

2. Find a problem that you can, with a little imagination, use the solution identified in Step 1 to partially solve.

---

The fact that there are masochists in the world does not mean it’s a okay to go around hitting people…

The fact that you can pound nails in using a screwdriver does not mean that it’s a good idea to use screwdrivers for driving nails…

The fact that you can find someone in Haiti who wants your old clothes does not mean that sending used clothes to Haiti is a good idea.

The fact that your volunteers are not run out of a village with torches and pitchforks in the dead of night is not proof, either that they were effective or that they were appreciated.

The fact that you can spin some wildly unlikely hypothetical situation in which your “activity that I’d like to do” idea might possibly not result in utter harm and chaos, in no way means that it’s a good idea.

The fact that you can spin a somewhat unlikely hypothetical situation in which your idea might result in even partial success, in no way means that it’s a good idea.

It’s basic pythagorean logic. It’s Occam’s Razor.

You start with the actual need. Then you base your solution on the need. Not the other way around.

Why is that so hard?

The United Nations Declaration of the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief[10], Proclaimed by the General Assembly resolution 36/55 of 25 November, 1981, Article 5.2. states:

1. Every child shall enjoy the right to have access to education in the matter of religion or belief in accordance with the wishes of his parents or, as the case may be, legal guardians, and shall not be compelled to receive teaching on religion or belief against the wishes of his parents or legal guardians, the best interests of the child being the guiding principle.

The children are told it is a gift from Jesus, not from a child in another country.

trockodile - yes. Absolutely. It's penguins in jumpers all over again.

www.giantflightlessbirds.com/2011/10/the-great-penguin-sweater-fiasco/

MyDog, yes of course... most religions are anti gay??? that's not news or new is it really? Christian/ Muslim etc etc.

one more time,,, it's a shoe box if goodies for a child!!

do you honestly think that the receivers can't say no to religions bombarding them??

religions smell despair and misery around the world. always will as that's where there recruits are. people can also say no!!!

When we lived abroad (as referred by mmelindor upthread) my son was given a box at his preschool...none of the children at this fee-paying preschool were poor in any way, none were in need of toothpaste, soap, or scarves, the vast majority were musilm (and Christian paperwork was included in the box), and the box originated from the UK.

Please note:

• These boxes don't always reach the right recipients.
• Despite assurances to the contrary, Christian paperwork is included (or it was when sent to a Muslim country that year!).
• OCC's response to me contacting them about this was dreadful, lots lf passing the buck for months on end in the hope I would get bored and go away.

If Christians want to send evangelical literature then I don't think they should pretend it's a charity to help the kids. They should be straight about it and call it a recruiting drive and admit that the food or whatever in the parcels is bait.

Back, all religions are recruitment drives!! they don't lie.. that's what they are about so can't understand the confusion here!

Puntastic-that is hilarious and tragic in equal measure! Unbelievable!

I worked for a long time for charities in India - Kolakata to be precise.

Periodically these Lady Bountifuls (as we called them) swanned in from the US, Australia and GB and handed out odds and sods to the children. Not all the children though - many were left out which of course causes massive division and resentment and even violence.

This kind of donation is all about the giver feeling good about themselves and has fuck all to do with genuine provision for people in dire need.

Filling a box with tat simply doesn't help.

Provision within nations so that the local economy benefits does help. Send some money to a local NGO or charity - they are on the ground and know what is needed. So if kids need toothpaste they source toothpaste from a local shopkeeper who in turn sources it from a local wholesaler who in turn employs a driver to deliver ....

It is basic economics and it helps entire communities in need not just the "lucky" child who happens to get a box with a single toothpaste tube in it.

puntastic - I hadn't seen that penguin thing before. I will bookmark it for future reference.

There was the start of something similar here after the Japanese earthquake and tsunami in 2011 - well-meaning people around the world started collecting food and clothes etc to ship over to Japan, which had absolutely no need of those things. There were already plentiful supplies within Japan of food, clothing and pretty much everything else the victims of the disaster needed (apart from possibly a few specialist items of disaster recovery equipment - not the kind of thing you'd have lurking in the back of your wardrobe or larder). The problem was getting the stuff to them, because most of the transport networks to the affected areas had been swept away in the tsunami. What was actually helpful in the end was the US navy which moved its warships up the coast to act as floating bases for disaster relief.

I remember some people getting rather offended and huffy when I pointed out the uselessness of collecting material goods here to ship half-way round the world to a rich country - they were only trying to help.

I think even many of the donations of used clothing etc from within Japan did not end up being used, because large companies like Uniqlo donated lots and lots of boxes of new clothing, which was much easier to distribute as it didn't need cleaning and sorting - everything was already labelled and divided into sizes and types of clothing.

I appreciate that people's motivations to do things are often good, but the effect is not always what is needed, even without the added disadvantage of combining gifts with religious propaganda.

The penguin story and exexpat's story remind me of the phrase 'intent isn't magic'

This is a useful explanation and it does seem to apply here even though it is usually used in other contexts.

People don't like to be told that their actions - however well-intended - are potentially harmful and damaging so they a) minimise the consequences or b) focus on rationalising rather than remedying.

trockodile/exexpat it's fascinating, isn't it? I love it for what it says about social media, as well as about the whole charity angle.

This seems to be demonstrative of the phenomenon whereby people genuinely want to give, but they are more bothered about the fact that they are giving - and in a manner that suits them - than about whether what they are giving, and how, suits the recipient.

Franklyn Graham was at some point drawing over 400 000 dollars a year as head of OCC. this man is political. If he has his way he would put a stop to same sex marriages, promote homophobic views, is antil Islam and probably anyone who isn't a fundamental Christian. He lobbies for abortion to be be banned. If you want to support this guy and his beliefs - knock yourself out, I'm sure Hitler probably promoted some charitable works as well.

But at least let people know what this man and organisation actually represents so they can make an educated decision. My guess is that most folk in the UK would be against his brand of Christianity.

But thebody, while their beliefs are prominently displayed on their website (at least in the general evangelising sense) by persuading non-denominational schools to support them, and those a schools failing to tell parents that this is anything other than a feel good, Christmasy donation, they are hiding what they are about, as you can't assume that people will check, and I suspect many kids and parents feel pressured to join in.

There is absolutely no way that I would donate to this particular charity (and so far haven't been asked to) but it's only because of threads on here that I known what it's about. If my son's nursery had signed up, I might have been too busy to check.

Franklin Graham did the prayers at bush's inauguration. Says it all really, anti women, anti Muslim, homophobic and pocketing a fortune in the name if The Lord.

Islam is absolutely unequivocal about the fact that by their creed homosexuality is wrong.

I would like to hear about the last religiously (or Christian state) sanctioned Christian execution as a punishment for homosexuality. I would hazard a guess that or was less recent than last month. With y'know, head chopping offs and hangings and things like that.

But no, I find people who can demand respect for Muslims and gays in the same sentence hypocrites.

If someone can point me in the direction of a Muslim state which promotes gay rights or a mainstream Muslim organisation in the UK which does the same thing I might change my mind.

Otherwise excuse me if I laugh at posters who say. 'Well I know a very nicely slim couple who live in Tooting and they've never said anything homophobic within my earshot. This obviously negates the worldwide persecution of gays by Muslims'.

Nice Muslim. Not nicely slim

I am so glad I have learned the truth about OCC. I will stick to MM now. I have done several shoeboxes every year for years thinking I was doing something good for the children :(

A couple of links for you Sea www.facebook.com/pages/Muslims-Against-Homophobia-and-LGBT-Hate/430959760274485

stream.aljazeera.com/story/201305092041-0022745