to ask for your help in writing an objection to Operation Christmas Child?

[autumnwinds]

Our local primary is supporting OCC and has published a piece in the village magazine explaining how wonderful it is and how much the local children enjoy it, what a difference it makes to needy children, and inviting local residents to donate too. The piece omits any reference to the evangelical christian literature that is distributed with the parcels and the way that the gifts are used as a tool to agressively convert recipients to christianity.

I would like to write a reply for publishing in next month's issue trying to give the full picture so that people can make an informed choice about whether to donate to this charity, and to suggest some alternatives that don't come with the religious baggage.

As I don't have a child at the primary yet I'm not sure about tackling the school itself about it (they are not a faith school, so not sure they should be supporting this). DC will be starting next year so I might save that fight for next xmas!

Anyway does anyone have any ideas about a few lines I could write, something succinct and unemotional? I feel quite cross about it but don't want to come across as an equally fundamentalist atheist. I've been looking for some evidence on the web for people who want to know more but most of it is not well referenced...

exactly DifferenceEngine - there are better options than a bunch of homophobic anti Islamic fundamentalists x

Sooooo a poor child receives a Christmas gift box from a kind person with a leaflet in about Christianity. Isn't this better than not receiving said box? Isn't Christmas about Christianity?

thebody - as an atheist, would you be happy if someone came into your child's school, handing out presents and trying to get your child to sign up for a 12-week bible-study class run by American fundamentalists? If not, why on earth would you donate to an organisation that does that to other children overseas?

Speaking of comedy gold on that other thread...

Message poster gooner1956 Sun 13-Oct-13 23:40:55
Goodnight SuburbanRhonda, or can I just call you Rhonda?

Message poster SuburbanRhonda Sun 13-Oct-13 23:45:59
SuburbanRhonda, since it's you, Brian.

Pigsmummy - I have no objection to giving presents to poor children, though I do think that sending shoeboxes of miscellaneous stuff half way round the world is not perhaps the best form of charity. What I do object to is a) linking gifts to proselytising, and b) that people who are not evangelical Christians are encouraged to support that by an organisation which covers up its true aims.

If you just want poor children to have presents, there are lots of other charities around which do that without pressing their religious beliefs on the recipients.

thebody, please read upthread about what the OP actually asked.

I am at you defending this charity. What is it that is so good for your kids to understand?

Btw, you do know that Samaritans Purse's statement of faith states that:
"We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; the saved unto the resurrection of eternal life and the lost unto the resurrection of damnation and eternal punishment. Revelation 20:11-15; I Corinthians 15:51-57."

You would fall into the second category, as an atheist. But they are still happy to take your donations.

why are people telling people who don't agree with the majority to read he full thread? It's not a long thread, the most likely thing is that they have read it and, er, don't agree! It's not compulsory to change your mind just because the majority opinion on a thread changes half way down!

I wish people would read the thread - it's not the Christian element at all it's the fundamentalism, conversion, anti Islamic anti gay stuff people dislike

Christmas charity gifts should spread LOVE and goodwill not hatred and oppression

Again, What makes you think people haven't read the thread - they probably just don't agree with you!

Manic, I don't think I've seen anyone who has said they disagree with the OP acknowledge that they are supporting OCC in spite of the fact that they are a homophobic and, at best, culturally insensitive, at worst racist and certainly evangelical organisation. That's why I don't think those people have read the thread.

The exception to this is thebody who may know exactly who she is supporting. I'm quite shocked at this - surely it's more important to live according to your true values, do some research and support organisations that are doing real good? Instead of turning a blind eye and going along with the majority. Several very positive shoebox appeals have been discussed that would be more than happy to give a donated shoebox without the accompanying OCC baggage.

manic, because the OP asked for advice in drafting a letter to the school outlining the evangelical nature of the charity the school is urging the whole community to support, and many posters are ignoring this and claiming she is telling people not to support OCC.

The OP and many other posters feel, quite rightly I think, that if you want to persuade people to support a charity they might otherwise not support, you need to explain exactly what that charity's methods and motives are, because it's clear even just from this thread, than many people were unaware, for example, of the homophobic campaigning the charity undertakes.

At no point has the OP suggested people shouldn't support it, but that they should support it in full possession of the facts.

I can't quite see how this could possibly be objected to, unless the charity has something to hide.

Good letter OP. Well done.

Samaritan's Purse have their fingers in lots of pies, eg their abstinence-based HIV/AIDS education programme in East Africa.

Here's a quote from Franklin Graham:

"I am not an advocate of passing out condoms to fight the spread of HIV/AIDS. We should not condone sex outside of marriage. When a crowd dragged the adulterous woman in front of Jesus and prepared to stone her, Jesus forgave her and said, “Go and sin no more” (John 8:11). I cannot imagine Jesus giving her a condom and saying, “Keep doing what you are doing and try to protect yourself.” "

X-post, houseseller

I was all set to do a shoebox until I read that they also need £3 taped to the lid to pay for 'admin'. I don't think so.

So what if there's some evangelical literature included in the kids' boxes? Surely what's important is that it's great for children to receive something nice and if their parents/carers/kids aren't interested in the leaflets or whatever, they can bin them.

I can't imagine anyone giving out condoms in biblical times either.

But probably for different reasons than Franklin Graham's

Interesting thread, i had no idea of the agenda behind these shoeboxes

oldgrandmama, if you read the thread, you will read that people are objecting to Samaritan's Purse being untruthful about the true nature of their OCC scheme.

They don't give a shiny shit what's in the boxes.

They just want to convert as many children as possible to their own brand of Christianity, and while there are enough people saying, "It's just a shoebox full of gifts, what's the problem?", they will succeed in their aim. The point of this post is to raise awareness of their real agenda.

I think the donation goes to pay for transport, and to pay for this 'booklet of bible stories', ie evangelical material, to go with the boxes: The Greatest Gift.

After a few stories, it comes out with: "Do you want to be a friend and follower of Jesus? If you do, you can speak to Him right now, by praying the prayer below: Dear Jesus, I want to be your friend and follower. I know that I have made wrong choices and have done sinful things. I'm sorry; I do not want to live that way any more. Please forgive me and change me. Jesus, I believe You are God's Son. I believe You died to take punishment for my sins. I believe God raised You back to life. Please fill me with Your Holy Spirit, so I will have all of the faith I need to trust and follow only You. Lord, thank you for rescuing me and making me Yours. Amen."

It then asks children to make a list of people they can tell about their conversion.

Not exactly what you might expect when you think of a 'booklet of bible stories'.

OP: I like your letter, but I'd take out the link to the humanism.org

This is because it will look as if you are simply a counter campaigner, for they are active on this.

I suggest you either remove references to the link, or find one from a organisation which is not campaigning one way or another on this.

You've reminded me to send my shoeboxes, and I've just done this online. Thanks OP.

I have read the whole thread. I am allowed to disagree!!!

my children attend a faith school as it's our local school, all of our catchment schools are faith so we have no choice.

we are atheists but hope interested in giving to charities and helping those less fortunate.

all religions have nasty elements, personally I really don't care that some fundamentalists of any religion damn me and mine to hell fire as non believers.

the shoe boxes are not the personification of evil but a few toys passed on to less fortunate children.

I repeat most charities supporting faiths have dodgy elements and I don't see quite why Christian charities somehow are more mocked than others.

Well, I do hope you don't have any gay friends, friends of other religions or non-believing friends, Petunia, because the charity you support holds very non-Christian views about such people.

Oldgrandmama I'm no apologist for any religion, but I think there's plenty wrong with turning up to poverty-stricken places where people are in need of aid and telling children they can have a gift as long as they agree to prayers and practices which are contrary to (or even constitute blasphemy in) their own religion or culture.

It's particularly offensive if reports of OCC evangelists following soldiers into war-torn Middle Eastern cities are true.

Thebody do stop the hyperbole - no one has 'mocked' Christian charities - they have objected to one anti gay anti Islamic charity operating in schools

They are entitled to do so

I am betting rather than a shoe box with toys most kids would rather have fresh water and food - which influences my charity choice

If you wish to support an orgnaisation that preaches against gay people and Muslims that is your choice