To think hitting someone else's child....

[pinkballetflats]

is NOT ok?

Acquaintance of mine is today boasting online that she hit a 5-year-old last night because of his bad manners while ToTing. Yes, the little angel needed to be told it is not okay to barge through everyone else and knock a smaller child over in the process, but hitting? She was pulled up on it but her attitude is her house, her rules and a slap on the hand is appropriate.

This isn't the first time she's boasted about hitting stranger's children. She did it at a restaurant once too because the toddler was pulling on her hair...fair enough, something needed to be said...but instead she turned around and slapped the child on the hand.

Am I just being precious in thinking this is the completely wrong way to handle either situation?

spraklysilver sequins you might be interested to hear of the debate in the UK educational psychology mailing list a few years ago. There was a proposal to do a press release condemning smacking as form of discipline. The press release was never made because someone eventually said that his professional opinion was that the occasional smack on the bum or hand was not damaging in the long term in an otherwisehealthy parenting relationship. His view was that smacking under those circs (Ie rarely, not hard enough to mark) isn't the worst thing a parent can do, and his fear was that some parents who would not smack were turning to verbal aggression instead. And actually if you child scares you by running into the road (or whatever, but this seems a popular trigger) then yelling a stream of abuse into its face might be just as damaging if not more damaging than a short swift bumsmack.

I have occasionally smacked my children's bottoms (I have 4 children; probably well less than 10 occasions between all of them over the years) and whilst these were not my proudest parenting moments my children are very well bonded to me and completely secure in my love for them. I have never and will never label them verbally in a negative way - I have never told them they little shits or idiots or little sods or said 'you stupid little bastard' or anything like that. I have labelled their behaviour at times 'you are behaving like a bully. Stop it RIGHT NOW' but never labelled them. I honestly think calling a child a shit or a bastard is more damaging long term than a slapped bum given very very occasionally. Obviously I wouldn't advocate for either as a daily parenting strategy!

I think I've seen that. It's also mentioned in a link I posted earlier that various psychologists argued the same and so spanking in schools wasn't made illegal. However others argue that it IS harmful. There are many different sides and I suppose an individual must take the one that confirms their particular parenting ethos and whether or not they wish to hurt their children and feel ok about it.

Just to clarify that link I posted earlier is US based.

I think the point is; there are more ways to hurt a child than physically, and physical chastisement used occasionally in an otherwise healthy praenting relationship is no worse (and possibly rather better than) verbal abuse used in the same context. Not advocating for physical punishment, but it somehow has a 'line in the sand' quality than verbal abuse doesn't. Its ironic to hear a parent screaming at their child 'Don't ever do that again you fucking little shitbag' whilst proudly proclaiming 'but of course I never hit him'.

Btw smacking and all corporal punishment are illegal in UK state schools.

"I have just never understood this move from fear to aggression"
That's understandable sparkly as you say, you're only a couple of years into a psychology degree. There's a lot of life experience and further studying that helps us develop our understanding along the way.
It's complicated. But basically, it's like a delayed act of control and rage. feeling out of control (or that your children are out of your control) is frightening.sometimes smacking gives a feeling of control. Especially if that's how you were sisciplined by your own parents.

Personally, although i am probably in what feels like a perpetual stage of parental anxiety and having been raised in the 70s, when smacking was jolly popular, I share your view. I don't believeit's helpful or healthy and I don't smack. I don't want to, I don't even feel like it.
Buti can understand How people feel like that.

junkfoodaddict I'm sorry but your reasoning for smacking your child as it has more impact is unfounded and contradicted by oodles of psychological research.

The fact is if your child had run across the road and been hit by a car (heaven forbid) he probably at that age would still struggle to understand the cause and effect. It would be a 'naughty car' doing something bad up him and not pain as a consequence of his actions.
So smacking his hand once he's in a safe place is nonsensical. Mummy smacked me, naughty mummy is how the toddlers mind works I'm afraid. Research shows that they remember the smack but not the reason for it. So while you feel a stern talking to would go over his head, I'm afraid so too would the punishment of smacking.
More sensible would be the punishment of reinstating reins or a wrist strap for a few days and discussing the reasons why as you walked along the road.
Each to their own but I wouldn't lay a hand on my child and wouldn't stand anyone else doing either! Isn't it illegal anyway?

I don't believe that ppl either smack or swear at their DCs.
There's usually an overlap ime.

I don't see why the choice is verbal abuse or a smack?!!

Doesn't that sound horrid to anyone else?

Oh. Littlelife sell adorable backpacks with integral reins. I found mine invaluable for DS.

Exactly thatisall

amanda as I pointed out in a previous post I have two dc with SN and am a lone parent. I am also in my forties if that's relevant . I also experienced a pretty abusive childhood. I am a mature student. I feel that have plenty of relevant life experience that allows me to have an informed opinion on this subject.

I never meant to say either use physical abuse or verbal abuse. What I was trying to say is that at times it seems like the message is 'you must never hit your children' and there was concern in psychological circles that if a press release went out saying 'we believe physical punishment of a child is always wrong' some people might erroneously think that as long as they don't hit their kid, they are doing no harm. Whereas obviously verbal abuse of children is just as wrong but doesn't tend to get the press coverage or the universal parenting disapproval or the 'well I would never do that' response that physical abuse tends to. And it should. Neither is helpful, neither us good parenting, and both should be discouraged, rather than focusing on why we shouldn't hit and not teaching parents why we also shouldn't call our kids terrible things.

Neither is good parenting. Sorry

sparkling I didn't mean to squash your opinion. I agree with most of what you have said tbh and that you have said it very well.
I was merely seeking to shed some light on the part you said you couldn't understand.

The thing is. Experience is interesting. We have experienced childhood but only our own and those of us who are parents have only experienced our own parenting.
So whilst personal experience is valuable and is what forms most of our opinions, it is also limited to our individual lives.

Definitely not OK. My understanding is also that it's always against the law to hit/slap whatever someone else's child. Plus it's just not on because it's not their parent's choice.

The boasting is pretty worrying too.

I would not be seeing the person again if they did that to my child.

I would tell someone else's child off if they were misbehaving, especially if rough to another child, but this would just be a case of telling them firmly (at a normal volume, not shouting).

If you hit a child for hitting or otherwise being violent this seems to me the silliest thing you can do because surely you are showing them that hitting IS ok. Also, every child I have met (just in my own experience) who is smacked turns very naughty as soon as their parents' backs are turned - i.e. not saying please and thank you any more once they know they aren't going to be smacked if they don't, whereas other children seem to do it out of common politeness - and in some cases I have noticed that they also tend to hit.

I was speaking about this on Thursday to a friend, who runs a nursery. I said that I chose not to smack, because, if smacking for a little thing became the default position, I was afraid of what I would do if I was absolutely bloody furious. (My parents gave me some scary examples of what that might be, as I was growing up.)

To me, smacking seems very counterproductive. My friend's take on it was that a smack is satisfying for the smacker.

Actually, what you say ties in with something she was saying, Mim. She said that one of the nursery staff had asked a little girl to say "sorry", and the child had refused. The child went on to say that her mother smacked her, if she didn't say sorry.

So, it appears that the mother's strategy wasn't successful, as her DD refused to apologise, without the threat of a smack. She wouldn't apologe because it was the right thing to do, only in a situation where she was afraid not to.

*apologise

Our children learn manners, like saying sorry, please, thank you and.. Not hitting, by our examples.
If you always say please and thank you your DCs will do the same. There'sno mileage in nagging them about it.

My DS forgets to say thank you sometimes. He is just 3 yo. Last weekend a grown up who doesn't know him curtly brought him up on it. I felt like tapping him (the grown up) at the time.

I have to say that my personal experience is that smacking is harmful when delivered on a pretty regular basis, especially when coupled with labelling and abusive commentary, and especially when that smacking was threatened to be carried out in public being shoved over a parent's knee and being threatened with having your pants pulled down too but that's just my personal experience.

The odd smack, I'm not so sure that would have lasting effects.

I remember that threat well!

Yes I remember it too. Really odd if you ask me. Maximum humiliation threatened.

Me too
I can remember trying to shield my arese from being hit. It really stung. Physically and figuratively.

Did yours get angry if you tried to protect yourself?

Human instinct is to protect yourself from harm. Your most basic right to protect yourself has been taken away from you. Can you imagine the impact on a child's psyche to be told to not protect yourself when your parents who you depend on for everything and love completely, want to hurt you?

Well done for going your way with kids despite your terrible experience sparkly