To think that if your child is scared of dogs you should encourage them not to scre and wail if my dog is 300 ft away...

[Beccadugs]

Walking my dog today, she was of lead, about 10ft ahea of me waiting for me to chuck the ball. A child cycled towards us, saw my dog (who is half toy poodle so tiny) and started screaming. My dog just looked at her and then carried on our walk, if she was the type to run up to strangers/kids she wouldn't be off the lead. However, when she was a puppy and less well trained this screaming was an invitation (in her mind) to investigate.

While I accept that some children are scared of dogs, and that is fine. I would have thought that if there is a dog in the general vicinity encouraging your DC not to scream is probably for the best when the dog is ignoring you completely. AIBU, we all want to use the local facilities happily.

Gobbolino, so you ARE saying that OP apologises simply for the existence of her dog. How bloody ridiculous.

Gobbolino, I hate your posting name. It reminds me of a book that I was scared of as a child. You owe me an apology for choosing that name and exposing me to it.

(Daft, see? )

because her dog caused the child to cry, if her dog had not been there it would not have cried.

The dog didn't cause the child to cry; the child's dog phobia caused her to cry. There's a difference.

One of my dcs used to go batshit around dogs and took years to stop acting 'inappropriately'. This is not because I am a twat who encouraged her fear but because of a series of dog owners allowing their dogs to flatten her and 'lick her to death'. She seems to be unlucky around dogs. My other dcs have had dogs bound up to them and sniff them etc in that 'oh, he's just being friendly' way that I personally find fairly annoying but tolerate in the spirt of having to co-exist but she has literally been knocked off her feet and drooled over probably half a dozen times and its terrifying for a kid. Never had an apology either. Nor did I get an apology from the man who allowed his perfectly calm black lab to approach our (indoor) table in a cafe and remove a sausage from the sandwich that was in her mouth. I was very proud of her though, she just said 'that dog was very rude' rather than going into full scale panic.

I'm curious to know what harm the OPs dog came to from having to share a public space with a child. Kids scream sometimes, dogs are just going to have to learn to live with that.

I would also like to know how the (absent?) parent managed to encourage the screaming child.

If you have a perfectly well behaved dog then I think you should be able to let it off the lead. The child sounds a bit neuotic in this instance and maybe the parents should be helping them to sort out their issues in one way or another.

How does anyone know the parents weren't trying to sort out the issue?

My child's fear came from a dog. She would never have been afraid of dogs if the owner had had better control. I have had dogs all my childhood and would have one now if I did not work so much. To blaim parents for their child's fear is very below the belt. My DD's school has banned parents from bringing dogs into the school because one kid slipped on some dog shit that the owner had kindly left on the school path and because other dogs were jumping up sg the children which scared them. Is that down to the school or the dog owners. Surprisingly the dog owners said the school was anti-dogs but the prime responsibility for the schools was the children.

I mean, it's a bit like a non dog owner seeing a dog with shit recall and slagging the owner off for the dog having shit recall without having any idea what they are doing about it. They might be irresponsible dog owners or they might be working on it relentlessly but just haven't got there yet. Child or dog, they generally need telling more than once.

I always apologise when my dog jumps up. (Even on lead). My issue? People who encourage her to jump at them! Seriously! People ask her for kisses and I have tried saying I am actually training her not to do that but frankly feel like giving up!!! When children come to our house (and are generally running around even when I put the dog somewhere) I now tell them to ignore the dog if she jumps up and turn away (and not put arms up), this works and she ignores them. Children it seems listen better than adults who still encourage jumping up!!!

Lweji ah ha that makes sense.
Abbreviating the abbreviation is a step too far!

Not everyone thinks dogs are cute. Even fewer people will think your children are cute and adorable yet we all have to tolerate their caterwauling in the park or misbehaving in public which is what the majority of these complains are. I remember my 4 month old leaded puppy happily sniffing a rock right next to a toddler who was 10 times the size of my pup yet promptly thew a tantrum that terrified my puppy and I was looked at like a child abuser. That was ridiculous. Just as I have to deal with your annoying children disrupting my peace so you have to deal with the fact that I and millions of others are going to have happy balanced dogs. Get over it.

Us dog owners have to put up with the bad ones too and we do not like it any more than you do - as well as harassing humans they will harass other dogs as well which is frightening. The reality is 99% of owners are fine it is the minority who give it all a bad name. Same as everything else in life but as usual the attention is on the negative not the positive. And the problem is with the owner not with the poor dog!

Btw I do not think it is ok for dogs to rush over to people, jump up, go crazy off lead or heaven forbid nip or bite. I will never also understand why people get breeds that they cannot control - I see a woman near us attempting to walk two huge rottweilers on her stilettos with no control whatsoever-they are untrained and straining at the lead. They have escaped from her twice. I do not want my dog or my baby or anyone else's children or animals to suffer as a result of her stupidity.

*livingzuid] has a good point, I would like ALL dogs and ALL all young children to be on a lead

This thread has gone even more nuts

This isn't a game of top trumps with child beating dog in every category. As far as I can tell nobody is saying that dogs have a greater right to existence or presence in a given area than a child.

And the OP should not have to apologise for the existence of her dog.

The question of "is a blanket rule on dogs being leashed an anti-dog idea?" in my opinion - yes. Not because dogs have greater rights than children, but because they do have some rights to live in a healthy and appropriate manner for their genetic background. I wholeheartedly agree with those saying they're not fur-babies -they're modified wolves (just as we're modified chimps ) and they do need to run around and let of steam. It would be utterly cruel to ban dogs from off lead exercise.

The idea of specialised dog areas would be fine, in principle. Unfortunately I imagine the logistics of this would mean it ended up too small and the high concentration of dogs would have a whole host of other issues - dog on dog aggression, plus it would be very hard for owners to train in such an area without space to work quietly. And there's the issue of compliance - the issue already is idiot dog owners who think it's acceptable for untrained animals to be loose around children. Not to mention those who believe dogs have no rights who might choose to trot across the dog area on a short cut and be similarly outraged at loose dogs Hey, there's always one! I'm not saying it couldn't work. In urban areas, it may be a big improvement. In rural areas, I still believe dogs should be allowed off lead, under close control on any PROW.

Regarding the assertions that "a dog is not under control unless leashed". This may be the opinions of some on this thread, but under law, the definition is under close control, leashed or will return at first call.

It is not arrogance to have a well trained dog off leash. It's (should be?!) experience and years of training. I am confident my dog will return at first call because I've put that to the test. He has a distance drop and a recall that over-ride his natural instincts. Your child could jump up and down screaming, waving their arms around, having rolled in chocolate ice cream and throwing his favourite toys in the air, and he would drop and wait. I know this, because I've tested it, in controlled environments (ok, never rolled a kid in ice cream, but...) so I can be confident he will comply.

Yes, dogs are unpredictable. So are kids. And adults. Heck even trees can be unpredictable (more than once the sneaky devils have dropped branches on me when I've been walking under them). And as my latin teacher used to yell "BO! the future is always unpredictable" . I am still willing to bet that my dog ignoring my commands and turning savage is less likely than me turning savage and going on a biting spree...

BTW, livingzuid has a good point - out of control dogs are a major issue for dog owners too. Many leashed dogs display fear aggression when attacked or approached by loose dogs, and aggressive out of control dogs are often more likely to attack another dog than a child. And since we quite like our dogs, and don't like paying for our vet's next big holiday, it's an issue for us too.

All these threads do is polarise the responsible dog owners from the dog haters, and create a gulf where there should be an alliance!

Excellent post Sheep but I still take issue with this:

Regarding the assertions that "a dog is not under control unless leashed". This may be the opinions of some on this thread, but under law, the definition is under close control, leashed or will return at first call

I know the law does not specify 'on leash' but (your excellent points notwithstanding) I still maintain that it is in the gift of NO dog owner (or anyone else) to say with 100% certainty that their dog will not suddenly behave out of character, with potentially horrendous results.

You may think that the risk is so small that it is worth taking, and this is where you and I will have to agree to differ. But you're right: the letter of the law is on your side.

Just lead your dog Becca when you see screaming kids. Just so the pearl clutchers and bosom hoikers don't get too excited! FFS.

Just so the pearl clutchers and bosom hoikers don't get too excited

You know this could describe either (and neither) side of the debate and I have to say has misread the (on the whole) good natured and reasoned tone of this thread And I know I'm not the Becca you mean.

arf @ I am still willing to bet that my dog ignoring my commands and turning savage is less likely than me turning savage and going on a biting spree

I would say it's a nailed on certainty in my case!

Actually becca, as I said last night before this flipped out even more, not that I blame you for not noticing / recalling, I don't walk mine in the vicinity of small children. Well, I think we've met a child once in the last year and she belongs to a friend of mine and was being walked with her own dogs, also off leash So I choose to avoid the risk, in so far as possible. As I say, I think I'm more a threat to the world around me than my beast

However, whilst mine gets 80% of his exercise on private land and maybe 20% on a rural PROW (where we have met the aforementioned child once in the last year), if the suggestion of leashed all the time on any public land were to come in, he would lose that part of his life. And that would be a shame - he loves to play in the ford, and doesn't get in anyone's way.

I also feel that I am fortunate to have my own fields to exercise him, and a rural PROW to take him on. Most folk don't have that opportunity, and I think that having a well trained dog, loose in a quiet area is worth the risk (I'd say that by walking at off peak times in less popular areas with a well trained dog is risk minimising). I accept you may disagree that the minimised risk I'm talking about is acceptable, becca. Most folk have different ideas about risk management! And neither of us are necessarily right, or more valid in argument than the other

I can see a much stronger argument for banning off leash exercise in busy city parks - particularly during peak hours, for example - if there were provision of a dog area. As I say, I don't feel that a dog area is without problems - but neither is the current situation perfect. There is no easy answer.

Ah becca, all my animals have much nicer temperaments than me - they'd have to, to put up with me!

My opinion is that unless you are on private land, dogs should be on a lead when out. In all circumstances, regardless of breed.

Yes, YOU (general) 'know' that your darling pooch will not run/jump/snap. No one else does. Both of my kids love dogs (as do I) but I hate having to dodge the dogs running free when out on walks.

I understand dogs need exercise (which is why the majority of dog owners are selfish imho because they simply don't lead the lives to provide that or live in places where they can).

But can someone tell me why all dogs couldn't be muzzled when out for walks in public places?

How would my dog bring his ball back if he was muzzled?

took me to be 28 years old and years of therapy and hypnothwrapy to getover my phobia (not dogs)

my mum is scared of dogs and I am not despite her nervousness and crossing the street.

people clearly have no understanding of phobias. I dont givea shit if your dog is nice and friendly, people are not psychic. if it isn't on a lead and approaches people it is not ok.

' am actually an animal lover and have had a fair few pets (cats atm) so dont assume people who don't agree with you are anti dog or anti animal