To think its not ok to call people mental

[LEMisafucker]

It would appear that mental health is one of those areas where it is still OK to be prejudiced. To the extent where people do it without any real malice and would probably realise they are causing upset.

But the thing is, it DOES upset me and i am pretty sure it upsets others.

It upsets me because i a have fairly minor mental health issues, they often quite a negative impact on my life but its ok, im on medication, it helps. Other people aren't quite so lucky and their illnesses have a huge impact.

Over and over i see this on threads - Well, shes mental or she needs her meds The connotation being that a person is derranged or barking mad.

In tesco they have a halloween costume called "mental patient"

I suppose i am technically a mental patient - but im not likely to go running down the street murdering people and social services have not seen fit to remove my children.

I don't want to upset anyone but mental illness has enough taboo, people don't seek help because they are ashamed as it is still so misunderstood - something that isn't spoken about, but still joked about.

I know this may seem trivial to some people but I have had people treat me differently because i have had some mh problems - nothing major really, PND and anxiety, but you can see people sort of taking a step back say if you tell them you are on ADs. I have learnt its better not to tell anyone, but if i were a diabetic i wouldn't feel the need to keep that a secret.

I just wanted to challenge the taboo a bit (apologies if it was comments on another thread that made me want to post this but didn't want to "kick off" on the thread anymore than i did and hijack, it just really gets me down)

I have a not exactly untroubled history wrt mental health. My dh is a MH professional.

I do say things are bonkers or drive me mad. I have used these terms to refer, flippantly, to myself. I don't use the word 'mental' in that context. I agree with TheFallenMadonna there is a difference in quality.

One big bugbear of mine is the whole 'oh, I'm a bit OCD' thing. Both the use of the term itself and its combination with 'to be'.

Alexa you seem to be arguing that its all about context and that I have my knickers in a twist over nothing. Your argument is fairly eloquent and convincing, until you read this -

It sounds horrible and the woman sounds mental. She shouted at another child that he was stupid, and then instantly grabbed her child and just walked out?

Crazy behaviour. Really bizarre.

Can you tell me if you think that is OK??

Because that is what you said on the other thread and what sparked me to start this thread. You used the word mental to describe someone who was behaving shittily towards children - can you not see why this would upset someone?

I wouldn't usually quote from another thread but you seem to want to labour your point that it is ok and not meant to be derrogatory, i just thought i'd put it into context.

But LEM, maybe the woman actually did have a mental health problem.

She shouted at another child that he was stupid, and then instantly grabbed her child and just walked out?

A person would behave like that for one of two reasons.

1. She is just a nasty aggressive bitch in general
2. She is in an acute phase of a mental illness which is causing her to behave irrationally, aggressively and out of character.

A happy, healthy person with no personality disorders and no mental health problems would not normally act like that.

I say this as a person who has a mental health condition.

I have a phase of particularly bad mental health, where I behaved completely irrationally (think shouting, screaming and kicking down doors because I was convinced my housemate had stolen something of mine) Note that I am a petite 5 foot tall, 50kg woman who has trouble opening jars and milk cartons, so I have no idea how I managed to kick down a door, but anyway...

I know that my behaviour was due to being in that state. If my housemates were to describe it, it would be "that time frog spoon went mental and kicked the door down"

If I had the choice between people saying I was just an unpleasant person who behaved irrationally and aggressively for no reason, or that I had a mental health condition which caused me to act out of character but which is now under control, I know which one I would choose.

I get what your saying, but in the context of what was said on that thread (and others) it was clear that actually the woman was more likely to be nasty and aggressive in general or just pissed off with what was happening and dealt with it badly. The description of her was not kind and saying "well maybe she had some MH issues and was not able to cope with the situation" That is very very different to simply describing her as "mental"

I think if people said "well maybe she had some MH issues and was not able to cope with the situation" people would still have an issue with that

I remember a thread a few months ago discussing a rude/ stingily behaving man (on a bus if I remember correctly?) and when someone suggested that the man might have ASD, a whole load of posters kicked up a fuss saying that their child had ASD and had never behaved like that and they were reinforcing stereotypes.

So if a person said that her aggressive behaviour was maybe due to having a MH issue, another load of people would kick up a fuss saying they have a MH issue and had never behaved like that and that they were just reinforcing stereotypes.

To be fair, you are probably right - i have MH issues, so i am not talking as a "professionally offended". But I have never behaved that way and would have taken myself out of the situation before it got to that stage.

The description of her was not kind

I think that's it LEM. It's not kind to call someone "mental", any more than it's kind to use negative terms referring to a physically disabled person, or any other minority group.

Thanks coupon - its funny though because people often describe someone as "mental" if they do something like extreme sports - that doesn't seem quite so unkind, its almost a compliment! so it really is all about context.

It's interesting, I think closeness to the subject matter probably magnifies how much offence people take too.

I do think you'll be hard put to remove words like "Crazy", "Mad", "Idiotic", "Gibbering Loon" & "Foolish" from common use, they're too deeply entrenched. I personally don't particularly have a problem with "Mental" either -not that it's something I say much in normal conversation.

How do you feel about "Bonkers" then? I remember some fuss being kicked up when Dizzy Rascal first released it, but it ended up being used at the Olympics Opening Ceremony.....

I see a lot of use of "Retarded" on American sit-coms, and it's already noticeable that it's steadily slipping into mainstream "yoof-speak" (and has been for quite a while).

Not sure how it could be highlighted that these are to be considered offensive nowadays without things backfiring and teaching people more insults to use - anyone remember how "Joey" became mainstream slang after Blue Peters well meaning attempts to highlight disability??

I don't think it would be considered acceptable to use the equivalents for physical disability though, so why for mental health problems?

There have been certain terms used to refer to disabled people in the past, which we don't use any more. Unfortunately, these have at times been used by some people as generalised "jokes", e.g. calling an able-bodied person one of these terms if they were (say) just being a bit clumsy that day.

Those who think "mental" is acceptable as a "jokey" insult, would you say the same about the obsolete terms for physically disabled people?

I think it's unacceptable. But for some reason I have found myself saying it quite a bit recently - I can't think where it's come from and I cringe every time I say it (about situations, every time, not people).

I've had MH issues myself, I don't feel bothered by it (by other people saying it, I mean) but I am aware some people do and I want to stop. I need a good word to replace it, suggestions please?!

I do think that if you're going to fight a campaign, it's best to fight one that you can win.

If you fight to get "Crazy" & "Mad" removed from everyday use then I think you're doomed from the start. "Retard" & "Cretin" are more achievable, but not sure how you'd go about it?

If you give an assembly of kids a list of unacceptable words, I'd be afraid you've just increased their vocabulary & usage is likely to increase!

How about Mad As A Fish - a common term used by many of my clients? It seems quite popular w/ them?

"Mad as a box of Frogs" - nothing to do with mental health, just the zany antics of enclosed amphibians!

I like mad as a box of frogs for someone who is a bit barking, and i like mad as a snake for someone who is angry - this is not the same as calling someone mental. I use the word barkng

Sorry to everyone suffering with mental health.Op you are not being unreasonable my dp calls me mental as a put me down.So what if i am mental there shouldn't be a stigma attached to it.It doesn't hurt me anymore as it's not shamefull.I suffer with depression/Anxiety and high stress levels which cause me to have mouth ulcers alot

YANBU.

I tend to just pity those who say things like this though. As I am also VI as well as having depression, I get looked at different for another reason. I pity those who do it because of my visual impairment too, because it's ignorance more than anything else. If they bothered to understand, they'd be unlikely to say it. So I do find it annoying, but try not to take it too personally.

I got picked on for my VI when younger and for being quiet. But I honestly used to think how sad and pathetic these people are for their views. I pity those who don't have the want or brainspace to even challenge what they think, when they see someone who is a bit different.

I do understand how it can make people stereotype though. But unfortunately, society likes to put people into boxes.

Black person? Check.
Gay man? Check.
Transvestite? Check.
Muslim? Check.
Schizophrenic? Check.
Guy in wheelchair? Check.

It's always been the way, unfortunately. I think it's nature in a sense to group, but we normally do it inside our own minds. Which of course can still be prejudiced, but at least you aren't hurting others feelings by doing it this way.

Great post Terror.

There's a little worm of a reporter from The Independent on this thread who has just referred to MNers disagreeing w/ him as a bunch of nutters.

Not a lot of progress is there?

Time to consider not buying a copy of The Independent from now on if you would usually buy it?