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Original poster

To think its not ok to call people mental

145 replies

LEMisafucker · 27/10/2013 21:59

It would appear that mental health is one of those areas where it is still OK to be prejudiced. To the extent where people do it without any real malice and would probably realise they are causing upset.

But the thing is, it DOES upset me and i am pretty sure it upsets others.

It upsets me because i a have fairly minor mental health issues, they often quite a negative impact on my life but its ok, im on medication, it helps. Other people aren't quite so lucky and their illnesses have a huge impact.

Over and over i see this on threads - Well, shes mental or she needs her meds The connotation being that a person is derranged or barking mad.

In tesco they have a halloween costume called "mental patient" Hmm

I suppose i am technically a mental patient - but im not likely to go running down the street murdering people and social services have not seen fit to remove my children.

I don't want to upset anyone but mental illness has enough taboo, people don't seek help because they are ashamed as it is still so misunderstood - something that isn't spoken about, but still joked about.

I know this may seem trivial to some people but I have had people treat me differently because i have had some mh problems - nothing major really, PND and anxiety, but you can see people sort of taking a step back say if you tell them you are on ADs. I have learnt its better not to tell anyone, but if i were a diabetic i wouldn't feel the need to keep that a secret.

I just wanted to challenge the taboo a bit (apologies if it was comments on another thread that made me want to post this but didn't want to "kick off" on the thread anymore than i did and hijack, it just really gets me down)

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:04

'If you perceive someone to be acing in manner that isn't, in your opinion, acceptable or regular behavior, then using a word that pertains to the mind is acceptable.'

No, it really isn't.

It's disablist.

HTH.

AgentZigzag · 27/10/2013 23:04

I know exactly what you mean Strump, and there lots of grey areas with words that are so disconnected from their original meaning that they're not associated with them any more.

But with the threads with post after post saying someone who isn't very nice is a nut job mentalist, it gets a bit meh if you're a nut job mentalist yourself.

Not that you think they're talking about you or doing it maliciously, it's just the general connection between using MH to describe a tosser and feeling isolated and excluded.

Strumpetron · 27/10/2013 23:07

someone who isn't very nice is a nut job mentalist, it gets a bit meh if you're a nut job mentalist yourself Sorry I did LOL at this Grin

I think the one that struck me was the MIL law topic (one of them anyway), people saying she has mental health issues. Hmm

AgentZigzag · 27/10/2013 23:07

'But I often think the people who get offended are the ones who are offended on behalf of the the 'sufferers'

Agree with this 100%.'

It's very helpful for people who aren't suffering from MH problems to feel uncomfortable with the negative portrayals of those people as a group.

You don't have to suffer with it to have an opinion, or to pick someone up as being offensive.

AlexaChelsea · 27/10/2013 23:09

lrd obviously no decent person would. But people use those terms all the time. And it is upsetting. It's offensive and horrible to refer to someone as a retard because they are doing something silly. But it happens. And it is offensive.

Calling someone crazy or aloof isn't offensive. It really isn't. And it definitely disablist. Not all mental health issues are considered a disability.

Saying that calling someone aloof is disablist is pretty wild.

Coupon · 27/10/2013 23:10

YANBU. Of course it's not OK.

A person with mental health difficulties is a human being, not a witty shorthand for unusual behaviour by everyone else.

And just because some people in hospital reclaim the word for themselves in a rather dark-humoured way, it doesn't make it OK for others to use it.

AlexaChelsea · 27/10/2013 23:12

So if someone behaves in a way that is particularly Hmm, what would you consider an acceptable descriptor?

SPsTombRaidingWithCliff · 27/10/2013 23:12

I thought aloof meant lost Confused Blush

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:13

Er, yes. I'm sure it is upsetting. And I am very sorry it happens.

But perhaps you can accept that calling someone other names might also be upsetting?

I didn't say calling someone 'aloof' would be disablist, did I? Not sure why you are twisting what I have said.

What I objected to was you saying that if you think someone's behaviour isn't 'regular', it's therefore ok to call them 'mental'.

It isn't.

It's disablist.

It's very simple.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:14

SP - 'aloof' means someone who's holding themselves apart, either because they're snobby or antisocial. It's not fundamentally to do with disability at all, but obviously it's just as rude as saying 'oi, you, you're antisocial'.

That's all.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:15

alexa - cross posted. If someone behaves in a way that is Hmm, I am polite about it. Unless they're being disablist, in which case I get fairly cross.

I certainly don't start out by calling them names that would make someone with a genuine disability feel shit.

MurderOfBanshees · 27/10/2013 23:15

YANBU at all.

Caitlin17 · 27/10/2013 23:15

AlexaChelsea, you could just have described the behavior as "bizarre" or "irrational" or "over reacting". Your defence of your using "mental"is pretty weak.

AlexaChelsea · 27/10/2013 23:19

Sorry lrd - I read all your posts and mixed them in my head when responding. I re read and you didn't say that aloof was disablist so I apologise.

'Mental' isn't a term used to describe people with any illness. Mental health, being the clinical term for matters pertaining to the mind, is the only use of the word mental in a medical sense.

No diagnosis is that someone is mental.

Which, is why I don't find it an offensive term.

I do find it offensive when people describe themselves/others as bi-polar, manic, insane, psychotic, depressed, because these are actual medical conditions and are offensive when used incorrectly.

Describing something as mental, isn't offensive, or disablist, because it isn't in reference to any particular affliction. It's in reference to the mind. Like someone who is angry could 'lose their mind' - I wouldn't think an Alzheimer's patient would take offence at this statement - they might, I don't have Alzheimer's so wouldn't want to speak on their behalf - but it's a connoted meaning which the receiver chooses to take.

If you take offence, that's your definition of the implication. I don't take this, personally.

Hence we shall have to agree to disagree Smile

AgentZigzag · 27/10/2013 23:23

The threads I was thinking about were about a MIL as well Strump. It was really crap.

Thing is about bringing this subject up, is that you can come across as being a bit humourless about it or that your really PO about stuff in general, there's another subject along similar lines that I really don't feel comfortable picking people up with because I know for sure I'd have my arse completely roasted for it Grin

But saying what's been said on this thread does give a bit of control and power back to a group of people who often feel out of control and powerless at their situations, who are vulnerable and ignored because it's not a nice (or fashionable?) thing to talk about (and I don't blame other people at all for trying to avoid it, fuck, I would if I could).

AlexaChelsea · 27/10/2013 23:23

As I said, I am not offended when someone calls something else mental. Because I understand it's generic, modern meaning. Meaning mad. Bizarre. Unusual. Crazy.

If someone says 'they have mental issues' or 'they are acting psychotic' etc, that, I find offensive. It's ignorant. (Unless obviously it's factually correct, I am referring to its use as a term of offense).

MurderOfBanshees · 27/10/2013 23:24

"'Mental' isn't a term used to describe people with any illness. Mental health, being the clinical term for matters pertaining to the mind, is the only use of the word mental in a medical sense.

No diagnosis is that someone is mental. "

No, but "mental" is used as a derogatory insult for the mentally ill. Just applying it to someone who isn't mentally ill doesn't make it better, if anything it makes it worse as it emphasises it's derogatory meaning.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:31

alexa, I don't think anyone is claiming 'mental' is a diagnosis, any more than 'special' is.

I appreciate the apology, however.

Your interpretation is simply less tenable than mine. Sorry, but it is. This isn't an 'agree to disagree' situation, really. You seem to think you're somehow being terribly factual by citing dictionary definitions, which is absolutely ridiculous.

Coupon · 27/10/2013 23:31

The "generic, modern meaning" is clearly derived from the mental health meaning though.

The modern meaning came about at a time when people weren't so bothered about offending people with mental illness.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:32

Exactly, coupon.

AlexaChelsea · 27/10/2013 23:33

Yeah, I actually do agree with that but I just really feel that considering the use of mental, in its modern standard usage, as derogatory is applying something that had long passed.

I think it could be a cultural thing - I struggled with the difference in perception of the word retarded when I first moved to the uk as in the states it is still used. Not in a derogatory way, obviously (not acceptably anyway) but here is would never be used.

Could this be the same? I'm not sure as I find more people here use mental as a descriptor for a bizarre encounter or situation more than in the states.

I'm also not sure it is always derogatory. Mental, as an adjective, has come to mean something odd/bizarre/crazy/wild rather than specifically meaning someone has acted in a way that suggests they have mental health issues.

Maybe not everywhere, and I am happy to stand corrected if the word is used in a really derogatory manner, but certainly where I live it's not perceived in a manner which suggests it's in reference to MH issues.

AlexaChelsea · 27/10/2013 23:35

I don't think my feelings are less tenable than yours, lrd, I think that's a bit unfair.

I don't perceive the word mental in the same way you do. Maybe it's personal, maybe it's cultural, maybe colloquial. Either way, my opinion isn't less tenable.

Coupon · 27/10/2013 23:36

I'm sure you're right that some people don't realise it's derogatory, because they don't stop and think about it before they go ahead and say it. But is ignorance and thoughtlessness really a good excuse?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:36

Ah, perhaps that is it. In the UK, I would be confident saying it's offensive.

Of course, it is obvious that the mere fact that 'mental' has come to mean 'odd/bizarre/crazy/wild' suggests it is disablist, doesn't it? I mean, you do get that, right?

I honestly can't tell.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 27/10/2013 23:37

alexa, I never said your feelings were less tenable than mine. Please, again, stop twisting what I say!