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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be pissed off DP went to a strip club....

689 replies

NancyShrew · 25/10/2013 11:13

When I made it perfectly clear I'd be annoyed about it.

DP doesn't seem to find it an issue and I'm fuming. He wanted to go to a strip club to "see what it's like", I said I wasn't happy and we'd discuss it at a later date.

He went anyway on a works night out last night, but apparently it's fine because it wasn't an enjoyable experience.

OP posts:
HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:32

I'm retracting my last comment because it completely ignored what you said about the appropriate environment for different behaviour.

Apologies.

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 13:35

It seems as if strippers separate themselves from escorts, so strippers who allow customers to touch them are problematic because they blur the boundaries.

Finally!!!!! Spot on.

This is dealt with by separating strippers into clean and dirty, of course the moral vs immoral connotations of these terms serves to further the self esteem of strippers.

Ah, so close and then this. No, this is not "dealing" with anything. It's just the way the clubs are. Working with dirty dancers didn't make me feel superior because I was clean, it's nothing to do with self esteem. They weren't interested in socialising with us as much as we wanted nothing to do with them. Entirely different types of girls. Being a dirty dancer often meant a lot of other things, they were usually (but not always before someone gets a hard on about that :) ) the drug users, often had problems at home, frequently would disappear for unknown reasons, quite unstable in lot of ways.

I do appreciate though Fester that you take a non judgmental stance towards escorts.

As do I, if that's what you choose as your job, I have no problem with that. What I had a problem with was girls who would work as dancers and perform essentially mild prostitution, which would then tar us all with the same brush. If you want to do that, good. Go and do it in hotel rooms and brothels, what's the problem with that?

Festered...you don't see that you either do extras or you don't? You don't see allowing a customer to fondle your breasts as an extra? It's quite distinct in my mind. If you clean dance, they pay to receive the entertainment you give them. If you start allowing touching, you've been paid to allow a man to touch you up?? Don't you think?

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:37

"Entirely different types of girls."

This is what is misogynistic about your posts, Sugar.

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:38

Sugar, I'm also interested in what you see as the huge moral gulf between stripping for a man and being "paid to allow a man to touch you up"?

Why is one "clean" and the other "dirty", in industry terms? Or in the terms you used upthread, why does one make you a "whore" and the other an entertainer?

DropYourSword · 28/10/2013 13:39

See heads, I read that to mean that they provided a different service, rather than a misogynistic comment.

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 13:39

Piss. Myself. Laughing.

Well done Festered, I've been saying this throughout the whole thread...for some reason this has not been acceptable, and people are acting like children hanging on a particular word, say, and making all kinds of bollocks up from that.

Chest bump for saying THE SAME thing exactly and getting the right responses :)

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:42

Different types of services, I'd take to mean a different service. Different types of girls? Sugar has already discussed this division in terms of morals...

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:43

"Chest bump for saying THE SAME thing exactly and getting the right responses"

Festered might be talking about the same issues, but you've been passive aggressive and provocative throughout the whole thread, which is why I think you've found it difficult to get your point across.

Strumpetron · 28/10/2013 13:44

My friend is a prostitute and they use labels too. The 'dirty' girls are the ones who will do anything, use no protection, don't get STI tested ect.

BasilFucker · 28/10/2013 13:45

But actually Headsdown has a good point - women judge other women for making their lives more difficult but no-one is judging the men who are doing the making life difficult. Why don't the men go to brothels if they want to indulge in that, instead of asking lapdancers for extras? It's not the lapdancers who do the extras who make the non-extra's lives difficult, it's the men who then assume that all lapdancers will do the extras just because some do and then harass the non-extras lapdancers - they're not being harassed by the extras women, they're being harassed by the extras men.

Similarly, it's not the lapdancers/ prostituted women/ girls on a night out willing to take one night stands home/ insert behaviour here, who make the lives of other women who don't want to do xyz difficult. It's the men who decide that because some women are willing to do xyz, that means all of us are and should and make our lives difficult if we don't.

But we blame the women rather than the men who see all women as interchangeable. That's to do with the madonna/ whore thing.

DropYourSword · 28/10/2013 13:46

Ok HeadsDown. But it seems to me you are just absolutely desperate to not listen to the point of what she's doing and are just picking apart HOW she is expressing herself.

I have different groups of friends for example. Some like make up, some don't. Some like swimming, some don't. If I described them as different types of girls, would that make ME misogynistic?

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 13:47

I don't find whore a derogatory term, when you are infact describing a whore. It is if you're not. If someone called you a stripper, you maybe wouldn't like it. Whereas if some one called me an ex-stripper, well fine, I was :)

An entertainer/clean dancer will dance. A dirty dancer will perform mild/not so mild sexual acts and allow herself to be touched sexually.

A whore (everyone's crying about me using this word, so how about you substitute it for hooker/prostitute/call girl/whatever floats your boat) is someone who performs an intimate sex act in exchange for money.

Drop Your Sword, you read that perfectly. And I think the other posters do too, but they're kind of clutching at straws for anything now trying to prove a dwindling point. Ignore it, I am :)

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 13:48

*Ok HeadsDown. But it seems to me you are just absolutely desperate to not listen to the point of what she's doing and are just picking apart HOW she is expressing herself.

I have different groups of friends for example. Some like make up, some don't. Some like swimming, some don't. If I described them as different types of girls, would that make ME misogynistic?*

THIS.

Caitlin17 · 28/10/2013 13:50

Sugar, some of your comments are just mind boggling. How you can possibly think what you are doing isn't providing a sex service is incomprehensible.

The dancers at The Royal Ballet are dancers. Prancing around naked , presumably on 6 inch fuck me shoes does not a dancer make.

Would any of these men be interested in paying you to dance if you kept your clothes on?

fanjofarrow · 28/10/2013 13:51

More antagonism. Why not debate like the adult that you are?

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 13:51

Have you read the thread? Try it....

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:57

"Ok HeadsDown. But it seems to me you are just absolutely desperate to not listen to the point of what she's doing and are just picking apart HOW she is expressing herself.

I have different groups of friends for example. Some like make up, some don't. Some like swimming, some don't. If I described them as different types of girls, would that make ME misogynistic?"

I think that HOW she is expressing herself in this thread has been quite telling. As Sugar has pointed out, other posters who also have first-hand experience of stripping, have made many similar points, but in a much more direct and convincing way, and have not been concerned with expressing quite hostile attitudes towards other women working in the same industry. In that paragraph, she didn't just describe different types of services on offer, but talked about two different, and completely separate groups (who she said earlier had different morals) and she "wanted nothing to do with them".

If you said that some of your friends were "different types of girls" I don't think that would necessarily make you misogynistic, because they are all your friends - women who you respect and are interested in. Sugar, on the other hand, has said that she "wanted nothing to do" with those girls, and has made it clear that she does not respect them. If you think that being judging other women negatively because they are sex workers is misogynistic, then yes, I think that what she wrote was quite misogynistic.

fanjofarrow · 28/10/2013 13:58

Maybe if you weren't throwing out passive aggressive insults towards anyone and everyone you disagree with, they might be more interested?

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 13:59

"I don't find whore a derogatory term, when you are infact describing a whore. It is if you're not"

Can you explain this, Sugar? Why is it ok to be a whore, or sex worker, but not ok to be referred to as a whore or sex worker?

HeadsDownThumbsUp · 28/10/2013 14:00

I mean, why does it automatically become derogatory if it is misapplied?

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 14:01

I'm also loving this "epiphany" moment everyone's now having about the clean and dirty thing.

Like I hadn't said that from my very first post.

In any club, 50% are clean dancers, and the other 50% are dirty dancers. The two clans do not get on, the dirty dancers thought we were sanctimonious prudes looking down our noses, and we looked at them as whores and wondered why they didn't just piss off to a brothel.

Then, 500 posts later, the penny drops...

I'm retracting my last comment because it completely ignored what you said about the appropriate environment for different behaviour. Apologies.

Well bugger me, what did you think I meant.

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 14:02

I'm also loving this "epiphany" moment everyone's now having about the clean and dirty thing.

Like I hadn't said that from my very first post.

In any club, 50% are clean dancers, and the other 50% are dirty dancers. The two clans do not get on, the dirty dancers thought we were sanctimonious prudes looking down our noses, and we looked at them as whores and wondered why they didn't just piss off to a brothel.

Then, 500 posts later, the penny drops...

I'm retracting my last comment because it completely ignored what you said about the appropriate environment for different behaviour. Apologies.

Well bugger me, what did you think I meant.

DropYourSword · 28/10/2013 14:02

Surely because at that point it becomes a lie, not a description.

BasilFucker · 28/10/2013 14:04

Sugarhut it might be quite difficult for you to believe, but some of us aren't here to point score, but to discuss and support the OP. (Still want to know what he said about the handbag)

SugarHut · 28/10/2013 14:05

"Surely because at that point it becomes a lie, not a description."

Nicely put :) It's not rocket science is it.