To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

I'm never sure why there aren't more whistleblowers in schools actually.

Yes starlight. Or do they hand out places in special schools to children who don't need them, for fun?

It's not a matter of phoning them, it is a matter of sending them a letter telling them that the child's needs are severe enough to require resources that the school are unable to provide and therefore justify a full statutory assessment.

It really is no more than that. It costs a stamp and at that point 10 mins of school time for the original request.

starlight do you think that a child who doesn't have a statement who nonetheless has severe needs is just able to turn up to school and have a normal day, because the school has the resources and the kid doesn't have a statement, thus everything is hunky dory?

"SO they failed the child."

How do you know that it was the school that failed the child?
Have you any idea how many different agencies have to get involved to get a child a statement.

One vague piece of information in the paperwork, or something filed late, or something not signed and it resets the whole thing.

And the statutory assessment will thus provide a statement and all is well, Starlight?

Cloud cuckoo land. There are parents on here who have had a hell of a time fighting to get a statement. Why is that if it's simply the cost of a stamp?

I don't understand your last point noble. All children are entitled to receive their education amongst their mainstream peers. The school needs to put in the support up to the child's £4k APW plus £6k from the SEN budget.

If that is not enough the school needs to request additional funding from the LA or apply for a statutory assessment that may bring additional resources to enable the child to be properly supported in accessing their education from the mainstream provider.

It is also possible that the child may have the option of being educated in a special school, but that is very much down to individual choice and the child's education should not be any less in quality because the child remains in mainstream education against the preference of the mainstream teacher.

'starlight do you think that a child who doesn't have a statement who nonetheless has severe needs is just able to turn up to school and have a normal day, because the school has the resources and the kid doesn't have a statement, thus everything is hunky dory?'

The school has the delegated SEN budget for such purposes.

It really is no more than that
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs_education
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs_legal
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs
go and post that comment on any of those boards - but get a hard hat first

If it exceeds £10k then they can apply for additional money and/or a statement, and must.

What comment Talk and why would I need a hard hat?

'Why is that if it's simply the cost of a stamp?'

Because it is the SCHOOL that is making the request.

child's education should not be any less in quality because the child remains in mainstream education against the preference of the mainstream teacher.

But the reality is that a child who cannot tell you how many fingers you are holding up is not going to be able to access any maths lesson offered to a class in a mainstream school even if they have a full time assistant and will end up in a 1-1 tuition situation which will be very isolating for them, with a teacher or TA who isn't well trained to help someone at that level. With the best will in the world.

'"SO they failed the child."

'How do you know that it was the school that failed the child?
Have you any idea how many different agencies have to get involved to get a child a statement.'

I do, yes. But you said that the school tried from Year R. Honestly the criteria for requiring a statutory assessment is probably needing one. That is all. If the school missed a deadline or forgot to file a piece of paper then they are incompetent and this should be reflected in the member of staff;s PRP.

Why would the TA or teacher not be well trained noble?

The school has the delegated SEN budget for such purposes.

And that budget simply stops the child with anger management from punching his neighbour, alleviates the depression of the young carer, calms the aggression of the disaffected, just like that?

Because they were in my class, Starlight, and believe me, it was beyond my training.

Next you're going to tell me that a class teacher can simply demand that a school pay for training for them.

"But you said that the school tried from Year R."

Actually I didn't, it was another poster, and it could well be (most likely is) one of the other agencies that messed up.

There is a whole different world between requiring/getting a statutory assessment and getting a funded SEN statement.

Starlight, have you not been aware that OFSTED and the DofE have been criticising the allegedly high number of children on the SEN register and those who have statements and have been trying to reduce the number. Here was an old article when it started: www.telegraph.co.uk/education/9260331/Can-20-per-cent-of-schoolchildren-really-have-special-needs.html

Why are you not angry at OFSTED and the DofE instead of the teachers caught in the middle?

'And that budget simply stops the child with anger management from punching his neighbour, alleviates the depression of the young carer, calms the aggression of the disaffected, just like that?'

Well if it doesn't then it isn't enough is it, and the child needs a statement.

Who said I was angry at teachers?

My whole blimmin family plus extended are teachers for the record.

Oh I don't know...your passive aggressive posts towards teachers? The disdain is very evident.

starlight, you seriously think that if there is a budget for anger management that a child with anger management issues is simply cured? Or if they are not cured instantly then a statement will be simply given to them?

Really?

Yes Bliss I am aware of that. But criteria for a statement at least for the moment remains and schools can apply.

However the law and the training LAs give to schools are often quite different.