To not understand why teachers should object to performance related pay?

[Dolcelatte]

After all, it happens in most other sectors, so why should teachers be any different. I am not trying to be controversial and there will undoubtedly be others with a better understanding of the issues. However, I don't understand the objections in principle. Why shouldn't remuneration be dependent upon performance?

Could you be a bit more specific about your experience, Starlight? You said you previously worked in education - were you a teacher?

'There are no 'special' schools, there is nowhere for children with ESBD issues (for example) to be appropriately educated/supported. Statements and CAHMS referrals can take AGES to come through.'

That isn't strictly true now. There are not many 'state' special schools that adequately cater for the range of individual needs but there are quite a few independent and new free schools that have popped up recently that do cater for these children.

Additionally there is the home-tutoring option which the Local Authority has a duty to provide if there is no alternative.

And finally, many schools are opening up onsite resource units to accommodate children who are found to need extra support within the mainstream environment, at least where I am currently.

Not a teacher. Love to be one but can't stomach the long hours with a young family, and the hypocrisy of HTs criticising parents for not attending day-time school productions whilst simultaneously refusing their own staff time off to attend their own children's.

So where does your experience come from? You said you volunteer- in what capacity? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, obviously.

Starlight, only one of the children I mentioned had a statement. You seem to think that SEN means statements and support and funding. Statements are actually quite rare, compared to children who have sometimes severe barriers to their education.

Do you think if I wrote to the LA they would simply hand out a statement? That that's what's needed to get the support these kids need? Because if that was true, of course I would drop the LA a line.

You are bonkers.

I hear and admire what you say Starlight. But the ability to really know pupils is so so different in secondary.

I'm not going to answer skyler because I can't see why it would matter.

Fair enough. But I don't see why it's then relevant to speak of your experience, if you're not willing to share what that experience stems from.

'Do you think if I wrote to the LA they would simply hand out a statement? That that's what's needed to get the support these kids need? Because if that was true, of course I would drop the LA a line'

Good. Then do it. Because the only criteria required for a statutory assessment is probable need for a statement. And the criteria for this is that the child's needs cannot be met from the current school resources.

If the child's needs CAN be met from the current schools' resources, then they jolly well should be and the school have been delegated the SEN budget and are expected to fund £6k on top of the £4k APW for that purpose. If the child requires more there are process in place for ensuring that the school receives that.

Starlight So how big was the primary school of which you were a governor (just guessing) ?
Because much of what you are saying bears no relation to what goes on in Secondary schools

Seconding what noble is saying about SEN statements being rare and SEN meaning any educational need not just statemented.

I wouldn't have spoken of it had I not been asked a direct question.

I don't think it makes any difference. I haven't said much outside of what any member of the public could say with common sense.

Talk. I have never been a governor.

starlight, you seem to think that statements are handed out like confetti.

As it is, most children with barriers to their education don't have them. And children struggle. But they don't qualify.

Okay noble then how many have you actually applied for?

Of course they would if their experience of mainstream is that the teachers shrug them off as shouldn't be there.

Starlight That's aimed at me, right? The two children in my class who shouldn't have been in mainstream education weren't assessed as such by me. They were assessed as such by experts. Are you suggesting that I should disagree with the experts in order to meet with your approval?

THe son of a friend got his in year 7 - after self harming and being in trouble right through primary school
it then took until last tummer (nearly the end of year 8) to get him transferred out of mainstream into the specialist school
Fully funded statements are rarer than hens teeth

should his former teachers be PRP penalised for not having been able to help him when the resource squeeze was not in theirs or the school's control?

Well, LAs might tell you they don't qualify according to their weird and wonderful SEN policies which frequently bear no relation to the law.

For example, LAs might say a child needs to be X years behind their peers, or that they have had to spend X years on SA+ or perhaps that the LA doesn't actually 'do' statements any more because all the money has been delegated to schools.

This is not what the Education Act says but the whole system is premised on LA policies many of which are unlawful blanket policies.

IPSEA do some great training for schools on this.

noble The 'experts' told their parents that they shouldn't be in mainstream education?

Er, Starlight, if I started applying for statements, believe me, the SEN department would be pretty pissed off, as it's not my job. They do it, and I know it's not simply a matter of phoning the LA.

Talk Why did no-one apply for a statement for him in primary school?

And if they didn't then yes, their PRP should reflect this.

'the SEN department would be pretty pissed off, as it's not my job.'

Actually I disagree with this wholeheartedly. It isn't your job PROVIDED they are doing theirs. If they are NOT, then it is a safeguarding issue and I'm afraid it becomes your job.

Starlight They started trying to get one in year R. But because of the huge costs involved it got stalled and waylaid for many years. As is often the case.

No it's not just a matter of phoning the LA but it does need someone to stand up to the LA and their penny pinching and unlawful practices. Many don't because SENCO training comes from the LA half the time so unlawful practices filter all the way down into schools

'Starlight They started trying to get one in year R. But because of the huge costs involved it got stalled and waylaid for many years. As is often the case'

SO they failed the child. And that is perfectly understandable to you?