to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

[YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo]

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

Have to agree with everyone else. Wish I had stayed put, would have meant my husband missing birth but think it would have been better than leaving my family at 32 weeks pregnant and flying to another country. The NHS is not perfect but it was very stressful being somewhere new and not knowing the system. Not to mention having your close family around you to help with your first child.

Yes tell her to steer clear. There was a story about that presenter from the property programme who had problems getting her son out of the US when the relationship broke down.

As for giving birth here.....to put her off, yeah don't go down that route...it is marvelous here....like staying Ina spa....private rooms, lots of nurses checking you....just lovely...no fighting for an epidural.....but only if you have insurance. I feel very very lucky to have given birth in the Us when I hear some of the stories from many many friends in the UK. It is more medicalised , if you want that and need it but plenty have natural births here if they ask for it.

The following is directly from the IRS's website:

Filing requirements for US Citizens living abroad: here and here

The summary reads: ^If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and for paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad.

Your income, filing status, and age generally determine whether you must file an income tax return. Generally, you must file a return for 2012 if your gross income from worldwide sources is at least the amount shown for your filing status in the following table^....(this table shows incomes from $9700 - $21,800)

Just in case you need any more evidence that this is a crazy idea for your friend, but there's an interesting interview of MIA in yesterday's guardian where she talks about the her custody battle with her American ex partner. Posting on mu phone so can't link atm.

Don't steal her passport just yet - the passport service can turn them around pretty damn quick (as I discovered, to my relief).

If she dies decide to go through with it. Advise her to choose airline carefully. Some do the immigration but here in uk to cut queuing in us. Only certain airlines/airports though. So it depends where she's flying in to. But if she was to get refused at immigration at least she wouldn't have a 7+ hour flight home....

OK so update with further information that has come to light:

1. When dickhead darling baby daddy is not on tour as a soldier his 'day job' is an attorney to the US army. This worries me even more as he will have the advantage of knowledge of the US legal system and could prob represent himself for free in court. It's another card in his hand.
2. As suggested me and friends have filled in 'tip-off' forms to the US immigration services in the hope this will strengthen our one 'safety net' of her being refused entry to US.
3. Apparently he suggested a few months back that they get married (purely on paper) for the medical insurance reasons. P confided this to another friend who told her it was a ridiculous idea and P agreed...at least back then. I think this is a very dangerous idea considering he has told her in no uncertain terms he is not interested in her. Who will foot the bill for the divorce? Or worse yet, will she be trapped as a house slave in the USA whilst this guy trawls the bars for girls who he is interested in? And if they get divorced (or even not) surely he still has the upper hand re: custody of the baby?

Regarding stealing the passport...i'd like to but i don't think i'll have the opportunity to, and she would also probably know full well it was us if we did.

QueenBoudicea this one? www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/19/british-expat-couples-children

Been reading this thread over the past couple of days, awful situation and hopefully in time she will see how lucky she is to have sensible friends. I was wondering if another option might be to report her passport lost or stolen? That way even if she goes for it it wouldn't scan. MIght be a bloody terrible idea and someone might come along to explain exactly why it's a shitty idea but it would slow things down even more. Whatever you do I hope she stays. I'm surprised her family aren't being more forceful really, I just can't imagine planning something so misguided without my parents or siblings telling me how it is.

Does the chap realise that we have the NHS and that she will get excellent medical care here without needing to be under his insurance cover in the USA?

Oh Jesus.

You have to go blunt and in black and white. No time for niceties or kid gloves. She maybe naive but she isn't a child.

List out on paper all the pros (whatever they that she's been fed) and the cons. Even if she doesn't fully agree or says "I don't think he'd do that" just keep repeating "is it worth the risk?"
It not birth or never for him to meet the baby, but it could well be only birth for her and the baby.
Is there any way of finding out who her doctor / midwife is and contacting them? Tell them her plan and ask them to call her in for a check up, they should be strongly against her flying out there.

And finally get back on to her mother, ask her if she's really prepared to lose her grandchild because him being a lawyer strikes me as no coincidence

Had not read the whole thread when I posted the above.

He's US military. Chances are he wants her to fly out to a VA hospital and be totally covered by his fantastic insurance.
Because he does not understand the NHS.

She still should not go under any circumstances.
He can get a free transport flight over here if he wants.

Okay. Sounds like he's in the Army reserve - generally a weekend/month & additional 2 weeks/year. These people can be called to "active" duty any time & deploy with the active duty military. Not sure how reserve JAG (judge advocate general - military lawyers) work exactly. DH thinks they may be called up more frequently than other reservists.

Ask her exactly WHAT insurance she's going to be covered under. I would NOT accept an answer of him or his family paying cash. If he's a JAG, he should know she won't be eligible for Tricare unless they're married.

I would emphasize continuity of care - not changing horses midstream. Depending on what he's telling her, he could want her to go some spectacular hospital which looks fantastic online but they won't know her, she won't know them etc.

Where exactly would she be staying? As it sounds like he's in the reserves he'll have a place off base. He may not even live particularly close to a base.

What will she do for money? Again, I wouldn't want to rely on the babydaddy.

I would be most concerned about custody issues and it sounds like you've got good advice on that score.

I wonder how much he's thought this through and how much he's getting pushed by his mother.

Do you have any idea how much contact she's had with him since she found out she's pregnant?

I wouldn't be worried about her becoming a "house slave". That sounds overly dramatic.

If she marries him, then she would be entitled to live in the USA and is not risking the chance of get deported without her child. If she is definitely going to go to the usa, then she should absolutely get married to him. Divorce options depend on the state you are in, but pretty much across the board, you can get divorced without lawyers if you are not looking for assets or money, and if you are, then you can get the court to get the spouse to pay for your legal fees if you are truly destitute.

Where does your friend's family fit into all of this? Will they be around to support her emotionally and financially in the UK? What do her alternatives look like in the UK? Are you sure that the father's motives are nefarious? Is it possible that he just wants to care for and look after his child and this is what he thinks is a good way to do so....and it doesn't seem that there is any evidence that it isn't simply a generous and helpful offer on his part. Just because he doesn't want to be with your friend, doesn't mean that he isn't a good person and can't be a good father to his child.

I'm wondering if your friend is really presenting the whole picture.
PS. In response to several people's suggestion that if she stayed in the uk, she would get continuity of care and be delivered by someone she had grown to know and trust during the pregnancy.....THAT WAS NOT MY EXPERIENCE of giving birth on the NHS. I did not see the same midwife twice during either of my pregnancies or even during my 40 hour labor with ds. I had multiple and repeated strangers treat me rudely and ignorantly. I had to fight for even the most basic prenatal tests like checking my blood pressure and genetic defect risks (and did not even get some of them). 7 months into my second pregnancy, after having been dropped by my gp 3 months into the pregnancy when there was a shortage of gp's in my area, so I didn't even get a new one for the rest of the pregnancy (hospital still insisted on doing "shared care" with my non-existent GP), I finally had had enough and corralled the head midwife on the natural birth floor at my local hospital and she agreed as a special one off situation to take over my care. She was lovely....but the hospital was not.

To quote MistressIggi

They could use the money to travel over here to be around for the birth - why (if all above board) would they not do it that way?

that is very important and a good one to use to try and convince/explain that their motives and method seem very dodgy

You are all soooooo negative. It's probably the thing I hated the most about the UK...no one is allowed to dream of good things, or aspire to a better or happier life, or want to do something that might be different....can no one find anything positive in this woman's situation....it seems not even her good friends can... how about putting as much effort into making this adventure a positive one for her as you are putting into making sure it doesn't happen just in case it might all go wrong.

I don't see warning someone of all the things that can go wrong as being negative.
As someone whose ability to be with my children has been very negatively impacted upon, through a combination of the Hague convention and my ex being a resisdent in the USA, if this was my friend, I would be doing everything in my power, to stop her from going.

Sofia would you fly across the world, to stay with someone who has said "...he didn't care for you".... its hardly a Harlequin/Mills and Boon romance story is it?

Obviously her friends and family do care about her and her unborn baby, and don't want her to get trapped in an alien country with the legal system stacked against her, not to mention huge medical bills. Its not being negative, its wanting the best for her.

Aside from all the passport problems, the utter horror of trying to establish breastfeeding, getting used to a new born and potential run of the mill complications following birth (stitches, recovering from cs, various leaking bodily fluids), presumably in the home of a man who doesn't want to have anything to do with you (plus his mother) is nightmare inducing.

Add to that being in completely strange country where you wouldn't even know where to pop round the corner and buy a nappy, with no friends or family around. The only explanation I can think of is that she is in a hormone induced haze and thinks they will have some kind of fairy tale ending.

People can dream but this one sounds like a potential nightmare.

I don't think pointing out that there's a real risk a mother could lose her child if she gives birth in the States is really crushing dreams. She would be reliant on the good will of someone who had said he isn't interested in her or being with her. If he wants to play happy families with his kid he can fly over here & demonstrate that.

I'm a bit of a dreamer & an willing to give most things a go, but there is such a thing as utter stupidity & giving birth in the States in this case would be an example of that IMO.

Have the baby here - then daddy can build the relationship with the child (& fling his money around if he so desires).

Anyway I wouldn't give birth in the states as they'd be administering hepatitis B jab at birth. No thanks.

Sofia - no! This guy hasn't given any indication that he will be reliable at all. Going by what the OP has presented here the chances of it being a positive adventure are about 0.1%, and the likelihood she would be deported while Grandma keeps the baby in the USA are 99.9%. More a nightmare than a fairy tale I think!

The only possible 'good' motive these people could have would be that they misguidedly think that they are saving her from giving birth in a UK hospital. I don't have any reason to believe horror stories about giving birth in US hospitals, but for political reasons some rather odd stories have been spread about the NHS in the US.

However, given that their belief would be wrong, the caring thing to do would be for him to fly over to the UK and support the mother where she is surrounded by family and friends and is in a familiar environment.