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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

802 replies

YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo · 17/10/2013 22:16

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

OP posts:
MNHQ
DecorKateTheXmasTreeMumsnet · 19/12/2013 17:43

Ahem - rules about troll hunting folks

quietitude · 19/12/2013 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RenterNomad · 19/12/2013 18:16

Of course she shouldn't lie that there has been domestic violence if there hasn't been! The very suggestion is insulting to everyone who has suffered real domestic violence or emotional abuse: I'm sure many of them would love to have been lying!

paddyclampo · 19/12/2013 18:34

I can't believe that the OP's friend has been so bloody stupid!

Under no circumstances should she sign the divorce papers as if she does she will have no legal reason to remain in the US and will be deported without the baby. As it stands, she will not be leaving the country with that child. The main factor here is that the father is a US citizen and removing the child without his consent is abduction.

My mum (UK) had us in the US and when she divorced our US citizen dad she had a huge battle getting permission to bring us to England, and her case was far more clear cut that the OP's friend!

The poor (albeit stupid) woman doesn't have a leg to stand on I'm afraid

NatashaBee · 19/12/2013 18:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

roses2 · 19/12/2013 19:28

The problem is if she has ignored all the advice so far and she is now in a panic, she's not thinking clearly enough to take on any more feedback from the OP or other friends. She will most likely be convinced by H and MIL to sign the papers and leave without baby.

Sharaluck · 19/12/2013 21:04

I think she needs to work on a long term plan to access her baby. Refuse to divorce and in the meantime start finding out about us citizenship. If they do divorce, she could try going for us citizenship herself.

Short term plan she needs to start arranging things so that she has rights for access when she returns to the us as a visitor.

I think she needs to realise and accept that she will not be the primary parent at all for the first few years. Who knows what may happen in the future, but I think if she realises this she can start planning practically for a role in her baby's life (even if this role is very marginal).

MollyWhuppie · 19/12/2013 21:12

The whole thing is just so weird. Why on earth on earth would P want to give birth in the States when we have perfectly good maternity services here, and why on earth would the mother in law want to bring up a newborn herself? I'm wondering if P could be part of some sort of surrogacy arrangement for money?

Orangeychoc · 19/12/2013 21:24

I don't believe anyone would be as stupid as the OP's friend is being portrayed as.

There has to be more to it. Maybe she's been paid to have the baby by them but is too scared to admit it?

Sharaluck · 19/12/2013 21:27

Hopefully it's some sort of surrogacy/adoption that op is not aware of. Or otherwise P is going to have to start thinking like a man.

HoneyStepMummy · 19/12/2013 21:29

Unfortunately the only, only chance she has of obtaining US citizenship is if she held a greencard for 3 years and was still married, or if once her greencard was permanent she got divorced and held the greencard for 5 years she could apply...From what OP said it sounds like she traveled on the visa waiver program meaning she can only be in the country for 90 days total. If the baby's father doesn't apply for a greencard (or act as sponsor) she won't be able to stay after 90 days. He has made it clear he won't be doing this when he gave her divorce papers. Whether she signs them or not this will not allow her to stay in the country.
I feel very sad for OP and the friend's family who are very worried about her and are trying to help her. She did something very foolish on a whim which now will have a huge impact on many people's and mainly her baby's life. That is of course unless she wanted the father to raise the baby from the get go, or if the father has no problem with her taking the baby back to the UK.
Unfortunately there's little that can be done and it's of her own doing. How terribly sad.

NatashaBee · 19/12/2013 21:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sharaluck · 19/12/2013 21:38

Yes I meant us citizenship or visa through employment.

nauticant · 19/12/2013 21:45

She's in a nightmare situation up against seemingly impossible odds. To overcome them would take fantastic internal resources, creativity, self reliance, and absolute determination, in addition to a great deal of luck.

From what we've seen so far she just doesn't stand a chance.

As someone said above, the only way she's likely to avoid years or decades of having her spirit crushed is if she actually did go to the US fully intending to hand over the baby and return alone.

Sharaluck · 19/12/2013 21:45

The very worse thing to do would be to overstay. Although it seems the man may encourage her to do this as it ruin her ability to get visas/visit etc.

She needs to get the equivalent of parental responsibity and rights for future visitation and then return to the uk to plan long term.

She needs to do this fast as she needs to plan to leave within the 90 (?) days of her visitor visa.

She needs someone to go over there and take her to see lawyers to get them to verify this and convince that it is in her (and her baby's) best interests.

paddyclampo · 20/12/2013 11:32

Any more news OP?

RenterNomad · 20/12/2013 13:51

"She's in a nightmare situation up against seemingly impossible odds. To overcome them would take fantastic internal resources, creativity, self reliance, and absolute determination, in addition to a great deal of luck.

If she did intend to give up this baby, there is no better way to have saved face than to have gone up against Uncle Sam.

Original poster
YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo · 20/12/2013 23:42

Just a quick update, will update with more details tomorrow when i've caught up with the updates.

P just messaged a bunch of us saying 'I can't wait to bring him home to meet everyone'. So i'm guessing this is still the plan, and if there is some kind of surrogacy/adoption thing going on it doesn't sound like she knows about it from that statement!

I'm slightly concerned that it looks as though some people might be calling me a troll (though I can't see the posts since they have been deleted). I promise i'm not, though I suppose you won't take my word for it no matter how much I protest. Actually this thread has been so real i've been outed to someone I know who also knows P (luckily someone who I know I can trust).

Anyway, I hope so much she has some sort of trick up her sleeve to pull this off. I haven't read all the posts yet but yeah I think the 'bedsharing' thing might be an annulment trick too. I wouldn't be surprised if she has signed the divorce papers already, she seems to cave in to everything else he says. But I will talk to her about it.

I asked her if she got in touch with the British Consulate and she says she just got automated responses. Anyone know if this sounds legit?

Her health visitor sounds good and on the ball, has put her in touch with other expat mums so i'm pleased about that.

Back tomorrow.

OP posts:
Sharaluck · 21/12/2013 00:11

If she has been there since early November she needs to be ready to leave (sans baby) early feb.

Is someone going over there in the next month to take her to see lawyers and sort out a custody arrangement and also to ensure that she doesn't do anything else stupid like overstaying her visa?

At this stage the most important thing is to stay on the right side of the US by not overstaying her visa and by ensuring she has rights to access her son when she returns to the us for visitation.

It does sound as if she is in serious denial and needs serious help in understanding these issues.

differentnameforthis · 21/12/2013 03:41

Caitlin17

I am in Australia & I got dd2's first passport in 2 weeks. It can through quicker than mine, dh's & dd1's renewals.

RubyLovesShopping · 21/12/2013 04:10

Health visitors do not exist in the US, there is no equivalent.

flamby · 21/12/2013 04:12

Hi OP. I'm married to a US citizen, currently pregnant and in the USA. I came in on a visa waiver (like your friend) and am adjusting status to permanent resident (my husband is American). If she wants to use this route to staying, I can send you a list of all the forms she'll need to fill in. She'll need her husband to sign some forms and provide an affidavit of support.

After my baby is born we are planning a trip to the UK and I've been told that if I get the baby a US passport then it can enter the UK with that as long as they know it is a temporary visit and I can file for a UK passport from the UK so as long as your friend can get a US passport and permission from the husband to leave with the baby, she can get into the UK.

In addition to her lawyer, another potential source of advice is her senator/representative. Her child is an American citizen. My husband's senator has an aide specifically tasked with helping with immigration and related issues and he has been really helpful for us. It is a totally different situation, of course, but you never know who can help.

Good luck - this is a terrible story and I really hope it works out for her.

steff13 · 21/12/2013 04:22

What is a health visitor? I am in the US, and I had a nurse who came out to my home with all three of my kids after they were born. They came out as often as I needed, checked on me and the baby, etc. If that's what a health visitor does, we do indeed have a similar program.

lljkk · 21/12/2013 09:30

HV is a kind of community nurse who specialises in the ordinary routine care of under school age (under 5yo) children. They typically do a small number of home visits but mostly they run baby clinics and are the first person to see about any ordinary health or developmental queries from 6 weeks old until about 4.5 years old.

I feel so :( for OP's friend. I feel like I want the family to be named and shamed for conniving all this.

lljkk · 21/12/2013 09:31

ps: in UK a baby under 4-6 weeks old would still be under care of Midwife mostly, with some checks by GP too.

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