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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be concerned about my friend giving birth in the USA?

802 replies

YoniGetAnOohWithTyphoo · 17/10/2013 22:16

My friend 'P' got pregnant by an american citizen (unplanned, on holiday kind of thing...) anyway, cut a long story short: he has said that whilst he isn't interested in her (and much less in coming over to the UK to play happy families), he, and moreover his mother, seem very keen for P to come over and give birth in the US, all expenses paid.

Whilst this seems like a nice gesture on the face of it, i'm a bit worried. Notwithstanding the fact that P seems to honestly think she's gonna fly to the USA alone at about 35 weeks pregnant (don't they have rules about this sort of thing?) with all the suitcases in tow, if a baby is born in the USA i'm worried it will be an 'american citizen' and as such, won't just be allowed to fly back to the UK. Do any mumsnetters know about this?

I'm haven't said much yet because I don't want to hurt her feelings or scare her, I know at the end of the day it's her choice... but I can't help thinking she hasn't thought this through. What do you guys think?

OP posts:
Lighthousekeeping · 18/12/2013 21:20

What a shame.

laraeo · 18/12/2013 21:54

Some very basic info about Virginia divorce laws here:

m.vsb.org/site/publications/divorce-in-virginia/

I'd be interested to know if the marriage would qualify for an annulment since HE appears to have entered into it fraudulently.

I'm curious about him making her share a bedroom - my guess is it's got some legal ramifications.

If I were her I'd document EVERYTHING. Difficult to do with what sounds like a harpy MIL.

The other thing I'd consider doing - bit she will need balls-of-steel and an internet connection - is finding out who the turkey's commanding officer is and making things as uncomfortable as she can for the baby daddy. I'd guess his reserve unit doesn't know much about his personal life.

I'm glad to hear the baby is well!

RenterNomad · 18/12/2013 22:03

Perhaps sharing a bedroom is so there can be no annulment due to "non-consummation of the marriage" (a bit funny, given the presence if the baby!)?

However, the legal approach could be tough, since I seem to remember tge father is a lawyer...?

Swanbridge · 18/12/2013 23:19

With the proviso that I know nothing about Virginian annulment laws (and haven't read link on phone about divorce), he's not going to find it easy to get an annulment especially as if anyone's been the schemer, it's him (and certainly in the UK you can get an annulment for non-consumation if your spouse is refusing to have sex since the wedding, but not if you're the one refusing).

Has she got any scope for negotiation - I'll give you the divorce you want without a fuss, if baby comes home with me?

NatashaBee · 18/12/2013 23:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

laraeo · 18/12/2013 23:34

From what I read, annulments ARE hard to get. But one legal ground for annulment is if a spouse entered into the marriage on a fraudulent basis.

Presumably the turkey had this all planned from the start since he's already presented her with divorce papers.

I'm not sure if an annulment is the way to go but it sounds to me like he's defrauded the US taxpayers by having her birth paid for using a Tricare (military indurance) and he's had no intention of trying to make the marriage work.

foreverondiet · 18/12/2013 23:51

Perhaps she should speak to UK embassy / consulate and ask for advice on how to leave the country with the baby.

LuciusMalfoyisSmokingHot · 18/12/2013 23:53

I really hope P manages to get back to the UK with the baby, shes due back first week of Jan iirc.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 19/12/2013 00:34

I think it's important she doesn't sign tge divorce papets atm. Sad Stupid woman. Sad

onelittlepiglet · 19/12/2013 01:06

Seconding what foreveronadiet says - I think the British consulate New York is the right one that covers Virginia - they would be able to offer her advice as a British national.

I really hope your friend can get back to the uk safely with her baby. Sad

ICutMyFootOnOccamsRazor · 19/12/2013 02:59

My DP is ex US military - as someone else mentioned above, he also says she should not sign any papers he gives her, and that she may be eligible for help from the military powers that be. His commanding officer would probs be her first point of contact (relatively easy to find out who this is if she knows his unit or social security number, apparently).

Also, it would be pretty straightforward for him to pretend until the last minute to be letting her go back to the UK with no arguments to get her to sign divorce papers etc - then it only takes one call from him asserting that she's taking the baby without his consent (or he is withdrawing consent) to Homeland Security once she's already at the airport and they will not let the baby leave the US.

She really shouldn't sign the divorce papers, even if he makes it seem like the easiest option.

The British consulate can advise her, but they can't help her to take her son from the US illegally (i.e. without the father's consent).

OrangeMochaFrappucino · 19/12/2013 06:33

My heart is aching for this brand new mother all alone and so far from home with the worst imaginable scenario facing her - having to leave her baby. I hope so desperately that her husband and MIL are not so cruel as to do this to her.

ZillionChocolate · 19/12/2013 06:58

This is really sad. Although seeking advice from the Army sounds like a good idea, if he's a lawyer for them, isn't there a real risk he'll find out?

Lighthousekeeping · 19/12/2013 07:00

I wouldn't be surprised if she's already signed them, it's just awful I can't imagine what she was thinking of.

Banffy · 19/12/2013 07:33

I've just read the whole thread. How awful :( Really hoping things work out ok for P.

RenterNomad · 19/12/2013 10:47

This scenario has got PND written all over it. If she "wins" the baby, any human selfishness (being tired, having had enough of baby's crying..) is going to make her feel so guilty, for not being "grateful enough" for him. If she loses him, she might feel equally guilty for any success/ good fortune.

Trigglesx · 19/12/2013 11:18

So sad to see this. Our adult dd was pregnant by an abusive boyfriend when she was still living in the states, and we convinced her to come visit us just for a few weeks (hoping she'd then stay with us) while she was pregnant, as we knew that once the baby was born, he'd NEVER agree to her taking the baby out of the country. Thankfully, once she was safe here in the UK, she refused to go back to the states and had the baby here. He was livid and tried to cause all sorts of problems with police saying we were holding her hostage and then ringing police in London just after the bombings back then and saying that he wanted them to look for her as he thought she might have been a victim in the bombings as he couldn't find her. The embassy was not impressed.

Anyway, she needs to contact his CO and make sure she signs NOTHING. She has been taken advantage of and misled, and I would say it's highly possible he will try to keep her from getting help as he will know it will reflect badly on him due to his career.

laraeo · 19/12/2013 11:19

There's another option I thought of when I woke up this morning.

If she's going to the well-baby checks, she can tell a health care worker she doesn't feel safe at home. That should set off red flags around her and the baby.

Every time I or DS sees a doctor - even if it's for something minor, I have to fill out a form with basic health questions. There is also a question of do I feel safe at home. IIRC, the nurse doing check-in also asks the question.

I'll be 100% honest, I don't know exactly what happens after that BUT her situation would have to be investigated.

I also agree with the others that she really should contact the embassy or consulate.

Fairy1303 · 19/12/2013 11:28

I think telling a health care worker is a great idea.
Less daunting than seeking legal support when she is post birth and surrounded by people - then maybe the worker could start to refer to the right places.

Surely this would constitute some sort of abuse?!

Trigglesx · 19/12/2013 11:33

Yes, and I daresay he may be edging into grey area that may get him into trouble at work. So she needs to be very careful and get help.

Medical personnel are bound by confidentiality so she can speak to them and tell them she wants none of her information going to MIL or DH. If the medical personnel are through the military base, then it's probably even better. A "family doctor" that is on close terms with the family might be persuaded that she is not quite of right mind.

Sallyingforth · 19/12/2013 11:42

So sad, she's going to lose her baby.

MurderOfGoths · 19/12/2013 11:46

Oh no, I was so hoping that everyone was overreacting and she was going to be alright :(

MimiSunshine · 19/12/2013 11:47

I'm sorry OP that it seems your worst fears seem to be coming true. It was scary before but now it's terrifying.
It must so frustrating for you, I know if this was my friend part of me would be screamingly furious with her for being so pig headed and stupid for going out there, ignoring just about everyone's advice not to (why oh why did she not immediately get a flight home as soon as those papers appeared).

But... It wouldn't help her now to shout at her and make her feel more alone. Is there anyway of getting her mum out there, if the cost of flights aren't in her finances could friends and family rally round to fund them. If I was a friend of P I'd happily chip in.

If it was possible, i would suggest that she flies out a week or so before P is due to fly home and aim to be accompanying her back. In the mean time get her all the info and back up possible, keep it a secret from the baby's dad and his mother. Basically have her turn up under the guise of "oh our new grandchild isn't it all so exciting, I just couldn't wait at home".

Ps mum will need to get fierce, but MIL back in her box, and she will need to be strong for her daughter to get them both home. No 'British reserve' fight American bullishness* with a core of steal.

*i know not all Americans are bullish but it seems like P is being railroaded by these people.

diddl · 19/12/2013 11:55

Even if she could show that the marriage was fraudulent-what about the baby?

birdybear · 19/12/2013 12:06

Thanks for the update and glad the baby is ok. I do wonder what is going to happen next though. It doesn't sound good.

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