to be annoyed at someone being offended by this - "FEED THE MONKEY"?

[redshifter]

I thought it would be discussed on here, as it is all everyone was talking about at work. I guess not many MumsNetters are into football, but I was interested in the opinons of fellow MumsNetters about this.

[ExcuseTypos]

TheBigJessie "Black football player being referred to as a monkey does set off a klaxon in the head of any nice person who has experience of football and the racist culture we're still eradicating."

Agree with this.

I'm sure the manager meant absolutely no offence, but it was very crass of him to aim this joke at a black plater.

[ExcuseTypos]

Sorry- player

[EldritchCleavage]

Yes, I can read Louise.

[LouiseAderyn]

Im not sure that people should have to avoid saying perfectly reasonable things because other people have behaved like twats with the name calling etc. The abusive behaviour should be dealt with properly. Its giving too much power to nasty people if everyone else has to adjust their own, perfectly normal behaviour on account of them.

It's also divisive if people end up thinking that you could say something like this to a white player but not to a black one.

[LouiseAderyn]

Eldritch ? Think you have me confused with another poster

[Caitlin17]

Limited period, the FA isn't the same body as the Professional Football Player's Association, the latter is the players' union.

Going straight to the Sun seems to me just to cause a stir.

BTW, I made no assumption about the race of the complainer.

[LouiseAderyn]

Just scrolled back and re read that. Eldritch, you may be able to read, but your comprehension skills could do with some improvement.

[EldritchCleavage]

Whatevs, dear.

[TheBigJessie]

I personally do not care that much about the actual event as it makes sense that it wasn't meant is a racist way. I uppose I start at babybythesea's (1)

What bothers me is all the people being disingenuous/proudly ignorant and asking, "how could anyone think monkey has any racist connotations? Why, I call my son a monkey all the time? Is it going to be a banned word now. PC gorn mad, I tell you!"

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

I see the thread has gone back to sensible discussion now, and to be honest this is the first I have heard of it.

But I would just like to thank the earlier posters who have now left me wandering around the house singing to myself.

Shaun Goater, superstar, how many goals has he scored so far?

Ds got me his autograph at Wembley this year. I was so excited, 7 year old ds was clueless!

[LouiseAderyn]

Jessie, the point there is that although it can have racist overtones it doesn't always and Hodgson used it in a non racist way but has still been subjected to accusations and shit stirring from the Sun.

[TheBigJessie]

No, the point in, for example, your 10:55 post, which was a example of it, is you refusing to see why anyone could have a problem. No-one is going to call you racist if you call your furniture-climbing daughter a monkey.

If being aware of low points in football culture makes me a "moron" (your word), I'm proud to be one.

Quite frankly, if this is the worst the manager gets from the tabloids, he'll have one of the best times as manager since telephoto lenses were invented.

See: managers of England from Glenn Hoddle onwards.

[LouiseAderyn]

I don't believe that Hodgson should have to avoid using a word perfectly innocently, where he had no intention of causing offence and, indeed, hasen't caused offence to the person he was speaking about, just because other people have used the same word with the intention of being nasty.

[LouiseAderyn]

Oh, and I never said I would be accused if racism for using the word monkey to describe dd. I was merely illustrating that people use words without having any negative intention, which is what Hodgson did.

[timidviper]

Apparently Roy Hodgson is known, within footballing circles, as a man who is resolutely opposed to racism. This smacks to me of a footballer wanting to cause a bit of drama and get in good books with the Sun rather than a serious incident

[TheBigJessie]

You were merely making a ridiculous comparison. Please don't claim you honestly thought we needed you to tellus that people use "monkey" innocently.

You were taking pre-emptive offence against imaginary accusations of racism you thought could come your way. In the process you ridiculed people for being aware that sometimes "monkey" is a racial slur.

Save for facebook, please. I'm sure you'll get dozens of likes there.

[LouiseAderyn]

Jessie you don't know me. Please don't presume to tell me what my intentions are.

[LouiseAderyn]

People are telling Hodgson that he should avoid using a word which he meant with no malice because other people have used it with malice.

If you use a perfectly normal word in a perfectly normal way, then it shouldn't matter where you are when you use it and whether you are talking about a black football player or a white child.

[TheBigJessie]

I don't want to know you, thank yew vair much!

Hodgson, however much you may adore him, said something, that out ofcontext, sounded like an open and shut case. Very unfortunate for him.

You could if you wanted, defend Hodgson without seeking to criticise people for thinking racism is a bit shit and should be looked out for. You don't want to.

You want to disingenuously state the obvious about intent and whinge about "grips" and "morons" instead.

[LouiseAderyn]

You seem determined to put words in my mouth which were not there.

But don't let the truth get in way...

[LouiseAderyn]

Racism should be dealt with where it occurs. Maybe you should not take all your facts from the Sun. It was not 'open and shut' at all.

[TheBigJessie]

Take my facts on what? How it was reported? I would think that the newspaper concerned would demonstrate how the situation was reported in said newspaper very well!

"Football manager calls black player monkey" sounds extremely 'open and shut'. Like I said, open and shut out of context.

And yet totally incomparable to a furniture-climbing toddler being called a monkey.

[LayMeDown]

But what do people want from RH? He referred to a joke that he probably shouldn't have considering the context but immediately realised his mistake. He apologised at the time and explained that it wasn't intended to be offensive. He apologised again on Weds. What more can the man do. For Gods sake the man misspoke, acknowledged it and apologised and still there are calls for enquiries and training courses.
We've all unintentionally said things at times that were insensitive or could have caused offence. All you can do is acknowledge it and apologise. I don't think anyone is saying RH is really a closet racist. in this case he actually didn't offend the player involved but still realised the insensitivity himself (not after it was highlighted in the press) and clarified and apologised. This surely shows an awareness of the issue?
I mean what more does he have to do or is he to be sacked as England manager for saying something thoughtless?

[Dawndonnaagain]

Racism should be dealt with where it occurs. No, that's how we end up with endemic racism. Racism should be dealt with, no defence, no excuse. If you are in a position of power in an area that is endemically racist, you should choose your language a lot more carefully. It does, in this case not matter what the intention was, the fact is, it was wrong.

[LouiseAderyn]

Dawn, that makes no sense. You can only deal with something that happens! Hodgson didn't actually do anything wrong