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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be annoyed at someone being offended by this - "FEED THE MONKEY"?

149 replies

redshifter · 17/10/2013 18:40

I thought it would be discussed on here, as it is all everyone was talking about at work. I guess not many MumsNetters are into football, but I was interested in the opinons of fellow MumsNetters about this.

OP posts:
WyrdSista · 17/10/2013 20:29

I have been called a 'monkey' (or rather, told to get back to where I came from with th other 'monkeys') and when I admit when I saw that, I immediately thought of racism. That's just a sad part of society, we are so used to racial abuse and worn down by it that even an innocent joke, about space/NASA not black people, seems racist when you don't see context. I don't think he needs to apologise due to the history behind it, but it could easily b seen as racist. In this case, it was an entirely reasonable jokey explanation, and nobody was offended, and that was that, there isn't really a point with it. But out of context, if I heard just that line, I'd think of it as racist, purely because of the negativity and racism I and many others have faced.

redshifter · 17/10/2013 20:36

Hmmm! Interesting comments.
Thank you.
I don't wish to offend people.
I told that story (NASA monkey)to my my son last week to make a point about him over complicating things.
Should I have changed the animal to "octopus" or something similar, so not to be racist?
Is "monkey" becoming an "N" word?

I'm not sure about all this, that is why I am interested in all your opinions.
I have heard so many different opinions today.

OP posts:
redshifter · 17/10/2013 20:52

Wyrdsista - It is good to hear your viewpoint.
One player did find offence though as he got on the phone to the "The Sun" to say how disgusted he was. He was present and heard it in context.
I am still not sure about it all but am interested in Stan Collymore's take on things " Demeans every anti-racism campaigner by having cheap pop at RH [Roy Hodgson] who said nothing wrong. Makes campaigners seem over-PC and petty. They're not," www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24563131

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 17/10/2013 20:59

We've not long ago had a similar incident in Australia. A 13 year old girl was yelling it at an Indigenous football player, Adam Goodes. She was actually forcibly removed from the grounds and the police were talking about pressing charges, but the footballer declined. Then about a week later, the president of the same football team that the girl supports made a reference about Goodes and the King Kong musical live on radio. It's this sort of casual racism in some sports that needs to be stamped out. A 13 year old girl may not know the historical connotations of what she was yelling, but her parents would and I expect that is where it has come from. A 50 year old president of a football club and prominent media presenter and journalist should absolutely understand it and should never use it in any inappropriate context.

Hubb · 17/10/2013 22:01

Colder has it spot on I think.

Drgonzosattorney · 17/10/2013 22:05

What are these bastards proposing to feed the monkeys? Do they they know that they have a vegetable diet?

Caitlin17 · 17/10/2013 23:17

Stan Colleymore's take on it seems very sensible.

Re the player who was offended would not a quiet word with a club official, a player's rep or someone similar within the football profession be a more considered response than a phone call to The Sun ?

babybythesea · 17/10/2013 23:18

But the thing is, if it was any other word, would it have been offensive?

Basically, Hodgson was asking the other players to give Townsend the ball. Because Townsend was the one making things happen.
Exactly like the monkey in the joke - the one that was getting things done. So he said "Feed the monkey" because it used the joke to illustrate exactly what he wanted to happen. Not because there was any indication that he has an even remotely racist stance. And one other player (NOT Townsend himself) decided it was racist but instead of saying so at the time, he reported it outside. Sounds more like stirring than a proper issue to me. I actually wonder if the player who 'leaked' it didn't know the joke so didn't get the reference. Because I didn't know it until this blew up and I googled it. Taken out of context it might sound odd and possibly racist. Once you know the context, I don't think it does.

If the joke had been about a dog, would it have the same connotation? Would we even be discussing it? If the player in question had been, say, Wayne Rooney, would it be an issue? Because surely what we are aiming for is total equality, which also means being able to repeat the same joke to a friend who is white, a friend who is black, a friend who is gay, a friend who is whatever minority, with no-one being the 'butt' of it, and no-one thinking they might be. Surely, in this instance, checking himself and not using it would make a more obvious distinction between the black players and the white players (I can say this joke to you and it's fine, but not to you, even if you as an individual would get the reference and find it funny.)

So the whole 'controversy' is born out of the fact that Hodgson was using an old joke to get his point across and has fallen foul of that joke. Not fallen foul of using racist language, but of using that particular joke. Are we really saying that there are certain jokes we cannot make reference to with certain people? When those jokes actually don't have race/ethnicity at their heart, but a genuine animal??? Let's face it, the real butt of the original joke is mankind, being outwitted by a monkey and being put there just to provide for it. He's got 15 minutes in a high pressure situation, and what he said was meant to be a joke among themselves. It was not a comment meant for public dissection. And I think that makes a difference.

While I get that the word does now have these connotations, I think we also need to be a bit careful about how far we take it. In that, the player involved was happy.

Flatiron · 17/10/2013 23:26

babybythesea - Yes, exactly that.

HavantGuard · 18/10/2013 02:02

Thank fuck for Colder. I thought I'd wandered into the Daily Fail's comments section.

Anyone who doesn't recognise that the word monkey in football carries historic (and current in some countries) associations with racism needs to go and read more before commenting.

cory · 18/10/2013 09:08

Surely the offensiveness is (as Colder says) directly related that football has a long and well known history of monkey and banana taunts directed at black players.

It's like somebody walking into a synagogue and raising their arm at a certain angle: however innocently he was claiming that he was only making a Roman gladiator joke, plenty of people would still struggle to dissociate that gesture from its history.

Sensible people know the associations words may have in the circles where they move and watch their mouth accordingly.

TheBigJessie · 18/10/2013 09:24

I'm with colder and I'm also annoyed the OP was annoyed. There is no place for faux naivety about monkey references In Football in 2013.

It wasn't a racist reference this time? Well, that's genuinely great. But that doesn't mean it was wrong for people to question it.

NotYoMomma · 18/10/2013 09:32

am I the only person who had never heard that nasa monkey joke?

I dont know if it is sleep deprivation or whatbut I was howling with laughter!

what annoys me is that it wasnt brought up with management or queried appropriatley. some fool made a tit of themselves by leaking it deliberatley to a tebloid to stir up shit

NotYoMomma · 18/10/2013 09:33

they didnt question it though!

they leaked an out of context quote to a newspaper!

PinkBubbly · 18/10/2013 09:35

Feed the Goat and he will score!

TheBigJessie · 18/10/2013 09:42

We, as in the general public, questioned it.

We cannot know the motivations of the person who called in, but I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and think they genuinely thought it was racism.

And they obviously felt a public outcry was going to be more effective than asking a club official to rein the manager in. I wouldn't assume a football club manager is the easiest kind of boss to challenge, you know?

ThunderbumsMum · 18/10/2013 09:44

cory you're missing the point. RH didn't wander in and start calling black people monkeys, he told a joke that happened to involve an actual monkey. I'm sure a joke in a synagogue about a Roman gladiator that incidentally involved an arm raise would also not be seen as offensive. People who claim any reference to a monkey could be seen as offensive are being ridiculous.

NotYoMomma · 18/10/2013 09:45

no but they could have at least put in the whole joke and context etc ratherthan create a drama on the front page.

made hodgson look terrible

TheBigJessie · 18/10/2013 09:51

If the person reporting had got the joke, he almost certainly wouldn't have phoned the Sun. Hardly surprising that was left out.

It's also possible the Sun took out the context, even though it was, in fact, reported to them in full. Journalists removing salient facts for a headline, perhaps?

anon2013 · 18/10/2013 10:01

DH told me that he believes it's a player that doesn't like the manager trying to get him put under pressure or sacked.

DavesDadsDogDiedDiabolically · 18/10/2013 10:03

So I now have to not say the "M" word.

There's not going to be a lot of alphabet left at this rate!!

TiggyD · 18/10/2013 10:09

Sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.

NotYoMomma · 18/10/2013 10:14

I would love to know who it was who leaked it lol

Shelby2010 · 18/10/2013 10:16

What's the betting that the person who was offended was one of the players who were taking the astronaut's role? Ie they didn't like that their only purpose in the game was to supply the ball to Townsend?

anon2013 · 18/10/2013 10:23

What if the monkey was upset if it was being compared to a football player. Surprised the rspca isn't involved! Wink