to want the school to admit some responsibility

[Justforlaughs]

Phonecall from school last night. 14yo DD "stormed" away from PE lesson after minor altercation with teacher, didn't return to lesson, an hour later a pupil asks DD something and DD hits her. School want to put DD in isolation for a day. All sounds reasonable, penalty for bad behaviour - and I am not condoning it at all. HOWEVER, DD is by nature the kindest, gentlest, quietest 14 yr old you could ever imagine (won't even put up her hand to answer a question in class because she is too shy) and the ONLY time I can remember her lashing out in the last 4 years or so is when her blood sugars have dropped suddenly - you see she is a Diabetic. To me, the whole incident is typically symptomatic of a moderate/ severe hypo, and I feel strongly that the teacher should have flagged that her "storming" away from the lesson was not "normal" behaviour for DD, she should have followed her/ got first aider to find her and check that she was ok. She sat alone for an hour in corridor, where no-one knew she was before the incident with the other pupil. Not being dramatic, she could have fallen into a coma. The school now want a meeting to discuss her behaviour, so AIBU to raise my concerns. I am honestly, not trying to belittle the fact that she hit another girl, but I don't want either my DD or anyone else getting hurt because of another incident like this. I am worried that it sounds like I am excusing her behaviour, and I suppose I am in a way. WWYD?

It is still early days for your daughter to be getting used to diabetes. I would hope that perhaps the School would give her a warning this time since it is almost certainly connected with her having a hypo.
Although it can't have been nice for the child who was hit I would hope the parents would be understanding and support the warning with the proviso that plans were being put in place to deal with any future incidents - I have had a number of phonecalls about my son being hit before anyone makes a comment.
On the other hand it seems to me (and I am sure someone will correct me) that this had a medical cause and is no different to someone with autism lashing out - they can't help it. How do the School deal with this - if isolation is still the punishment all violent conduct whatever the the reason then she should be punished.

ChillySundays - I was with you up until your last sentence. Is it really okay for school to have blanket policies and rules for every policy and rule for every child when some children have conditions that cause the blanket policy/rule to be broken through no fault of their own? I get that hitting another child is serious and it needs to be addressed - but a whole day's exclusion seems extremely harsh for what seems on the surface to have been more of an accident than an intentional act.

Not read the other replies, but if the school would like a meeting i think it would be a good opportunity to say all you've said in your OP. It may be that the PE teacher didn't realise she was diabetic or didn't put two and two together. I'd go along and talk it through with them. It does sound out of character.

I don't (and neither does DD) have a problem with the days isolation, in fact it, as I said earlier I think it could work in her favour. Not only might it make an impression about the impact high/ low blood sugar has on her and on her friends, but the person she will be with is a really good sounding board for the kids and will listen if she wants to talk about how she feels.

Ditto pink.

The existence of a policy would never justify punishing children inappropriately.

Too many schools have this idea that they can decide that all children will get punished in a particular way for particular behaviour.

If the size of the school means that this inept behaviour management is the only system possible, then the numbers need to be reduced.

Children are not cattle, they are individuals and their behaviour should be managed in a manner which acknowledges that.

The OP's child has a track record of being quiet and compliant. On the first occasion she kicks off the staff should be looking at why it has happened and working out how they can support her better and keep her and the other pupils safer.

TBH, OP, I would have thought of a day's isolation as a treat when I was at school. Maybe it will be good for her after all.

However the principle of punishment before any other interventions is wrong and could have made your DD resent her condition more that she already might.

I hope she gets a chance to talk and be listened to properly and that the school puts some robust plans in place to keep her and other pupils safe in the future.

Ah, sorry Lunar1

Sorry OP, I haven't rtft but just on your op my goodness of course YANBU! Anyone who knows the slightest thing about diabetes knows that children can exhibit out of character behaviour when they are "hypo" it is on all the care plans of the diabetic children I have worked with.

I'm not saying that it isn't something that needs to be addressed with her on some level but of course the school ought to accept some responsibility and they need to ensure that everyone in the school understands how to recognise this situation in your Dd. The leaving her in a corridor is really out of order.

I hope you can get it sorted out and that your Dd is ok.

Just to add I'm not belittling what happened to the other child either but if my Dd was hit in these circumstances although I would be upset I would understand and would encourage my Dd to understand too.

Pink & Gold -
I wasn't saying that a blanket policy is right but if that is what the School has then she will have to abide by that as presumably whatever the circumstances that is the punsihment. i sincerely hope they don't and that the reasons are taken into account

I'd ring the Diabetic Nurse today or tomorrow and ask in advance if she could come to the meeting next week or if she can't do that, ring the school before you go in. Monday when you see her might not be enoug notice.

For anyone who still isn't getting hypos (and most people do get it), even with DH who has been Type 1 for 33 years sometimes misses the signs and things go wrong. Last Friday 13th he had one first thing and slept through the warning signs. He passed out and fitted whilst I was in the shower so by 7.15am there were 2 paramedics in our bedroom as I was concerned my efforts to bring him round weren't working as fast as I would of liked. Before this he has been stable for 7 years but things have been stressful so his control not as good despite his best efforts.

The PE department especially should be very aware of those pupils with diabetes and I agree that having to go to the medical room to test is not a good plan. DH has a pencil case type thing he takes round and can discretely test with minimal fuss under a table.

I have found this thread to be VERY hard reading.
I am a diabetic. I have been for 40 years, since the age of 1.
I find some of the attitudes really upsetting.
The ignorance and uncompromising nature of some posts has really shocked me.

I actually feel quite tearful.

How are things OP. What is the latest?

Says the Mum, who was HYPO, with a blood sugar of 2.4 when I was stood in the playground at pick-up, half an hour ago. Did a test. Drank some lucozade.

Why don't some of you try my life. Want to exchange and try being a diabetic for a month?

Thought not.

Not worth getting angry or even upset about Oblomov, it just highlights to me how much work needs to be done to inform people and especially those who are in a position of trust with regards to other people, managers/ teachers etc. I know that there are people who I work with, who are diabetic, and I know that many managers would have no idea what to do if they had a hypo. Being truthful, until DD was diagnosed and being in a position where I HAD to know, I wouldn't have either. There is a lot of information about this, and other conditions, that really NEEDS to be out there. I hope you feel ok now.

Pretty sure hypoglycaemia affects criminal responsibility. If I remember right if the hypo was foreseeable (eg a diabetic having a beer instead of lunch) then you are still responsible but if not then not.

You could point out that the school have no evidence that she was not hypo as they didn't get her to test when they should have.

The school needs educating on this, including non-teaching staff. Uncharacteristic aggression is a common symptom of going hypo.

I know a teenage girl whose blood sugar levels swoop up and down, I don't know if it's a hormonal thing as she was better, more levelled out, when she was younger.

An adult male friend also doesn't always know he's going hypo, and is very very embarrassed afterwards, he tends to prance and sing! He doesn't always realise in time, he is not irresponsible.

A colleague of mine, in his late 40s, makes a point of asking his colleagues to gently suggest that he's acting out of character if he, er, starts acting out of character. It's only happened the once but it was rapid and he recognised what was happening but only once one of us had pointed it out. It was pretty obvious that he was out of sorts to those of us who know him - a bit like someone might be after a line of coke or something.

This man has had diabetes (type 1) since he was a very little boy and still doesn't always recognise that he's ill without others' help.

YANBU, OP.

I mean, only happened the once in my company.

I hope your really make progress with the school op, I think the incredibly difficult things about secondary school is that the people who are going to be most aware of your dd behaving out of character are her friends. This must be very stressful for you all

i think you should support the school and your dd should be punished for her behaviour.

I think you should also raise the issue that your dd is not managing her condition independently that well and that you need staff to be aware that storming off / moody behaviour could be related to her diabetes. Then all staff can respond accordingly and keep a close eye on her. I also think you and your dd need to be having words about how she takes responsibility for testing her levels.

ofgs if one more person with total ignorance of type one diabetes posts on this thread i will.....scream.
it doesnt matter how often you test your levels you can still have a hypo

I think yu've got this right, op. take the punishment, support the school, get it through to your DD. then soon after have a meeting re her diabetes and try to make sure that all staff are told to prompt her to test if she behaves in a fiery way again. It will probably need repeating, given that teenagers are a bit prone to fiery behaviour, but you do need to talk it through with them. If you keep the issues separate for now you will get further I think. If it happens again I would be linking the two. Issues in the same meeting though!

I realise that you are happy to go along with the day's isolation for various reasons but make sure that your DD does not feel she is being punished for something beyond her control. That could really affect her engagement and confidence, not to mention her school record. It is not always possible for a diabetic to know when they are going hypo. It is not necessarily true that your DD will "learn" from this that she "needs to have better control". That might simply not be possible and punishing her for failure seems so very sad and harsh. There must be other ways to ensure she has someone to talk to about her feelings.

What burberryQ says. And Oblomov to all affected by diabetes type 1 particularly.

I have very limited knowledge on diabetes. My grandmother has it but manages it very well, so luckily have never had to see a hypo in action.

I also used to share a room with a girl in school (boarded in) who stayed on a Thursday night whom has diabetes. She was not so good at managing it and when her sugar level got low she either got very tired and agitated or over animated and aggressive. At this point I'd kindly point her towards checking her levels. She was 15. If they were low, I'd give her something with sugar in. IF they were normal, I'd presume she was very tired or perhaps had hyper/hypo earlier on in the day which was making her behave differently.

I think it's hard being in charge of say 28 other teenagers and dealing with an individual who is behaving differently. The PE teacher no doubt didn't think it was related to the diabetes and because they probably teach about 100 pupils honestly forget that your daughter had diabetes or what your daughters personality is like in general normally (as she is quiet) so didn't think anything of it.

However, with someone having a specific condition their needs to be a plan in place if something like this was to happen again. Maybe a note that permanently stays at the top of the register list to remind the teacher of your daughters condition and if she needs to leave the room or if she behaves in x, y or z ways, that she should be sent to the nurse to check her levels.

If she is behaving particularly uncontrollably, for the teacher at hand to phone through to get a TA or member of office staff/nursing staff to pick up your daughter and help her to the first aid room.

My worry is with isolation is that if her levels were low in the future and this was to happen, that she could very easily have gone unconscious and her condition could deteriorate rapidly. That would really worry me. If they wanted to punish her have her alone with an individual teacher or office staff, but not leave her alone in these circumstances as this could be potentially very dangerous.

Be calm, but be concise and explain to them your concerns and how you worry how this could have turned out.

I hope they work with you to improve this.

A note in the register is a really good idea, we do this at our school and it means that anybody taking the class sees the information and knows where it is to refer to if needed in an emergency. It doesn't need to be too detailed- if you're worried about confidentiality it could even say something like 'if x is aggressive or otherwise acting unusually, please call school nurse'