to want the school to admit some responsibility

[Justforlaughs]

Phonecall from school last night. 14yo DD "stormed" away from PE lesson after minor altercation with teacher, didn't return to lesson, an hour later a pupil asks DD something and DD hits her. School want to put DD in isolation for a day. All sounds reasonable, penalty for bad behaviour - and I am not condoning it at all. HOWEVER, DD is by nature the kindest, gentlest, quietest 14 yr old you could ever imagine (won't even put up her hand to answer a question in class because she is too shy) and the ONLY time I can remember her lashing out in the last 4 years or so is when her blood sugars have dropped suddenly - you see she is a Diabetic. To me, the whole incident is typically symptomatic of a moderate/ severe hypo, and I feel strongly that the teacher should have flagged that her "storming" away from the lesson was not "normal" behaviour for DD, she should have followed her/ got first aider to find her and check that she was ok. She sat alone for an hour in corridor, where no-one knew she was before the incident with the other pupil. Not being dramatic, she could have fallen into a coma. The school now want a meeting to discuss her behaviour, so AIBU to raise my concerns. I am honestly, not trying to belittle the fact that she hit another girl, but I don't want either my DD or anyone else getting hurt because of another incident like this. I am worried that it sounds like I am excusing her behaviour, and I suppose I am in a way. WWYD?

Sounds like the staff require more training.

Sounds like your daughter needs to take more responsibility for her condition. By now she should KNOW how she gets when her blood sugars are low, surely? And rectify it.

Emailing the head sounds like a good plan but perhaps you need to rethink your approach to the punishment issue.

If you feel that your DD really just needs a wake-up call and she isn't embarrassed or concerned about what happened then fair enough. This will be a lesson learned.

However, if your DD is already struggling to accept her condition, and lots of teens do, punishing her for an aspect of it that she couldn't control is likely to do more harm than good.

You need to stop worrying about what they think of you and your motives. you are your daughter's advocate.

Your DD has recently been diagnosed with a serious, life threatening medical condition and she needs appropriate support to handle it. The support to monitor her BM and manage hypos safely is non-negotiable. They have a duty of care and it's your job to make sure they are living up to it.

They also have a duty to help your DD with the emotional implications of this diagnosis. The last thing you want is her rebelling and stopping her insulin. It does happen and the results can be horrible, permanent damage as I'm sure you know.

You need to take charge more and be very clear about your expectations. They aren't doing you a favour by meeting her needs; they are doing their jobs.

My concern about doing this is that I don't want them to think that I am trying to excuse her behaviour in order to avoid the punishment

It doesn't matter what they think. What matters that she is safe and has the support she needs to deal with an enormous life changing event.

flap you obviously do not have any awareness of this condition and therefore I do not know why you are bothering to post your opinion.

Yanbu I am a type 1 diabetic who was diagnosed at 17 I really feel for your dd as I found it very difficult to accept and deal with for a long time. I was in denial about a year or so after diagnosis and my control was rubbish how I was never in hospital im still not sure, and from what Ive been told this is a very common thing for teenage diabetics to feel.

hypos can come on very suddenly and while control is poor the warning signs may not be as good. My bg also reacts differently to a hypo caused by exercise(can suddenly go hyper up to 3 hours after) than one caused by too much insulin for food(does not always rise if treated in time) but this is individual to the person as much as are ratios for carbs are. I can only assume that the teacher didnt know or had forgotten that your dd is diabetic as to allow her to storm off and have no one look for her is irresponsible at best. It must be horrible for your dd to have to go to first aid to treat herself it wont help her feel in control and may be why she isnt keen on testing in school. I would raise it with the school.

Good God, there's always one!

Did you actually read any of the thread?

Or perhaps you could tell us how long it took you to manage your diabetes reliably (you are diabetic, right?) because personally a year at age 13/14 is not very long given how notoriously difficult it is to do.

Sounds like your daughter needs to take more responsibility for her condition. By now she should KNOW how she gets when her blood sugars are low, surely? And rectify it.

Would you like to enlighten us as to how this can be achieved? Do you have some new magic potion which prevents low BMs from adversely affecting cognitive function?

Sorry I was too cross to be coherent.

...personally I think that a year...

Flap the whole point is when some people have a hypo they become aggressive and agitated and they dont always have awareness of this , leading to the hypo being untreated and descending into the patient becoming unconscious .
If one of my patients becomes aggressive out of character if always immediately assume they were having a hypo.

Actually, the fact school are calling you in for a meeting might mean her behaviour ( nothing to do with her diabetes, just general behaviour) might be causing concern..... 14 ime is the tricky age.

I'd say go in with an open mind

Or maybe the other girls patents have complained about the assault and want to take it further? What was that exactly about anyway?

I'm also a bit on the fence with this. I was very similar to the description of your daughter myself in high school, quiet, unassuming and teachers didn't know I was there.
At around the same age I had a spectacular fall out with my Art Teacher, a man who was wonderful to me throughout my school life. I felt like I was being pushed so hard in every direction with GCSE mocks etc and he passed criticism over my work and I snapped. I told him where he could stick his art, leaving him and the whole class open mouthed, and then I walked out, got on a bus and went to town and spent some of my savings.

I was very humble the following day and the school didn't punish me, but I think I'd reached a point where I was ready to snap, throw hormones into the mix and I did something VERY out of character for me.

Is she under any stress at school? Is her period due? They could all be factors just as much as diabetes.

Spirulina The reason we are having a meeting is because we have another matter to discuss (nothing to do with dd) and the head of house said we'd kind of tack this onto the end of the meeting.

Barbarian thanks for the support! In some ways I'm glad that people aren't all agreeing with me, because I think it highlights the fact that I need to get the message through to ALL the teachers, without exception, that certain behaviours are characteristic, that DD CAN'T be expected to always recognise the signs of a hypo and that she DOES need to be called up on testing if certain symptoms seem to be occuring. We have had meetings in school before, with first aiders and the counsillor, but obviously messages aren't getting through or people need reminding. The thread has also highlighted to me that I should try to get her friends on board a bit more, especially around reminding teachers that behaviour MAY be triggered by hypos and possibly giving a gentle reminder that she shouldn't be alone in that case.

Juice as far as I know she is happy in school, gets on with her work, finds it all far too easy in fact - was going to speak to the school about her not being pushed enough! (She finishes her work in about 15 minutes and doesn't get any more set - totally other issue, I'll start another thread! ) She has good friends, maybe not that supportive/ understanding about Diabetes (eat lots of sweets in front of her - as in LOTS!, don't accompany her to First Aid, wait for her when she goes), but still long time friends who she gets on well with and likes. She hasn't started her periods yet, so yes, it could be linked with that and hormones, which I have considered and as she didn't do her blood sugars I have no proof what caused her behaviour yesterday. It just follows the typical pattern of a hypo, and with no proof either way I am not prepared to argue against a punishment but think it should be raised as strong possibility anyway.

Hi justforlaughs My 15yr old son is diabetic and I have had some issues around these areas. My son's personality changes massively when his sugars are very low or very high. I have had to go into school to talk about the diabetes quite a few times and they are very aware of it now. His PE teacher recently got him to test his sugars because he was being disruptive in a lesson - he was hypo - no punishment.
I think I would react similarly to you in backing up the school this time but I think you need to point out most importantly how dangerous it was that she was left for an hour when she was hypo. Did they fulfil their duty of care? She could have lost consciousness or worse. I also think you need to discuss the issue of blood sugars affecting behaviour. I would probably be looking for a diabetes nurse to come in with me to help me explain the problems and also to make sure they know how dangerous that situation was. Do you have a number for your hospital team? They should be used to coming into schools. I'm not sure Id be worrying about the blame for the incident I'd be more interested in working towards better care in the future.
I love the idea that a hypo teenager will be able to see the need to test their blood sugars

If it is totally out of character for your dd to behave like this then chances are it WAS a result of either blood sugar OR the pressure and stress of dealing with a relatively new condition - which must be incredibly hard for a teenager.

My mum was type one diabetic from the age of 5 and even in her 30s and 40s she had sudden unexplained changes in blood sugar - it is not controllable every single minute of every single day for some people no matter how well the manage it or measure their blood sugars.

There is NO way she should be punished for this one off behaviour, if it was a direct result of diabetes then she likely wasnt in control of her behaviour if it was a result of dealing with the condition then she needs support not punishment.

I would certainly be bringing it up in with the school - if the teachers dont have an understanding of the condition they need to be told, diabetes gets brushed under the carpet a lot of the time because it is not visible but it is a serious life long condition and frankly I am surprised by the attitude of some on here when the attitude to other conditions is so understanding - if this child had lashed out as a result of ADHD for example NO ONE would suggest a punishment .

For the benefit of others if you are in a hypo you do not necessarily see the signs. It's because it's already 'too late'. You can avert further issue but that requires someone else often to help you.

By no means every time. It changes a lot but to say a 14yr old should know is wrong. The school needs to ensure staff know of her condition. She possibly could do a detention rather than anything else as maybe they could cover some work and obviously hitting isn't good even with a reason.

OP - I think you are being very reasonable about this...I also think you could do with getting your DD'S DN in to rebrief the school - leaving a potentially hypo child alone for so lone was terribly dangerous & making her leave her testing kit in the FA room is ridiculous! (did I read that right?!)

To all those posters who think a 14 yo who's been dx just a year should a) be in perfect control & b) should somehow know when she's hypo... Please, please for the love of god do share your secret to hypo detection?? I for one would LOVE to not have to draw blood around adozen times a day!! Tell the NHS too - you'll save them a FORTUNE in test strip prescriptions!

let's just remember this is a child we're talking about. Adults miss hypos, that's why the dvla have some quite draconian rules re testing & driving - it's for good reason. She's only a year after diagnosis, which potentially means her body could still be spluttering insulin now & again - the not-so-fun 'honeymoon' period. And believe me, hormones play merry bloody hell with sugar levels at the best of times! Teen years with type 1 are tough!

This was after/in a pe lesson, which could well drop levels. The school's policy of making her scuttle off to the first aid room to test is terrible - how to make her stand out as 'the diabetic'! Do the teachers in her pre pe sessions allow her to leave the class early so she can get to the FA room, test & treat before PE? I'm guessing not. What does she do if she suspects she's hypo? Does she just treat? Not allowing her to keep her testing kit on her is to my mind outrageous & dangerous.

For me the main worries would be:
The not having her test kit on her (how the hell is she supposed to achieve good control when they are effectively putting barriers in her way?!)
Not sending someone after her.

Would she consider a pump? Far more discreet...
Are you in a support group? There are more local / online groups for parents of type 1 these days, the insulin gang, jdrf, 'children with diabetes' etc. worth looking into.

Sorry, got a bit carried away! Some of the comments though...

I agree with Stillstanding.
My son is the most mild mannered boy, but some hypos result in a horrible, aggressive pain. It is always a sign that his sugar is low, but he is unable to see it. Not all hypos are the same. Most give a warning sign, some don't. Some come on just like that. PE is a classic time for a hypo ( as are exams). My son used to have a small kit Kat before PE.
it's very difficult keeping up with the turnover of new teachers and ensuring they know what is involved. You would be amazed at the number of people who think that a hypo requires insulin.
I think in this case I would be asking the diabetic nursery to come with me to the meeting. Ours was fantastic at educating the staff and my son.
I do think the school were irresponsible in this case and I would be very annoyed.
I found out that my sons school kept his hypo kit in a locked cupboard at the far side of the school. Only one member of staff had a key and knew where it was. The diabetic nurse came to a meeting at the school, explained why this wasn't acceptable, and it was quickly resolved.
Good luck.

Just read Ploddings post. Agree with everything she says.

Hi!

I'm currently a SAHM but pre DS was teaching secondary with some responsibility fir the students with any SEN in my year group.
FWIW I think you are right to support the school re the punishment this time. As you say you can't prove it was down to a hypo. I think you are right to focus on how a similar situation can be prevented in future.

There are a few things we used to do at school which might help. Some of these are similar to suggestions already made but I thought hearing them in the context of one school's procedure works might help.

Firstly, you could ask for a Medical Education Plan for your daughter. This should be written by the SENCo and agreed by you. Included on ours would be brief details of pupil's condition, when to concerned and actions to be taken. It should be electronically accessible to all staff and ideally a hard copy available in all depts.

On SIMS/ register we had all SEN info (inclusion data) available for each class we taught, which serves as a quick reminder of SEN at the beginning of each lesson. It also linked through to full Education/medical plans. This might help also.

Once the plan is agreed, the SENCO or tutor could email teaching staff to raise awareness of new plan and summarise the most important points. With a relatively new/variable conditions such as your daughter's it might be appropriate for this to happen more than once a term.

Also, for MEPs, where any member of staff might be needed to act, we had them all on display on a noticeboard in the staff room with a photo of the child.

A bit long but I hope the suggestions are helpful!

We have a meeting at 9.30 on tuesday and a hospital appointment on Monday with diabetic nurse, so will ask her for advice then. Hopefully she will be able to come along to lend weight to what I say.

I think that unless you are diabetic or have a close friend with type1, you shouldn't post rubbish on this thread. The OP is taking a very sensible and possibly slightly too conciliatory approach to the school. It's completely reasonable to go on the assumption that the behaviour issue stemmed directly from hypoglycaemia given 1) the circumstances and 2) the child's previous behaviour record, therefore at best the responsibility should lie roughly 20/80 with the 80 being on the school.

A 14 yo within the first year from dx is very very vulnerable and needs support. My friend with type 1 was capable of going from lovely, mild-mannerer affable person to the Hulk in moments - and given that he's 6ft5 that is a problem. He's generally well controlled, but even so perfect control is not always possible and we all look out for the signs and carry food around when out with him - he has the medical kit on him at all times too.

Would the poster who said that she should have known she was hypo please write a book? Just imagine how many people you could help.

And to the secondary school teacher who thinks it doesn't really matter if she forgets a child is diabetic, you need to either spend some time in an adolescent diabetes clinic or just leave your job because with that attitude you are a danger to your pupils and they would be better off without you.

Diabetes is not an exact science, everything can affect the way the body responds to food and insulin.

I don't think for a second that it was my first husbands fault that he died from complications of his diabetes in his early thirties. But maybe some of the amazing posters on here had spoke to him and told him he should have just known he would have been alive today.

I don't think any secondary school teacher said it doesn't matter if they forgot a child was diabetic?

lunar1 I am so sorry to hear about your DH . Until DD was diagnosed I had no idea about diabetes, I suppose that because the school reassured us that "they did" I took it as read. Obviously I need to chase up a few issues.

And to the secondary school teacher who thinks it doesn't really matter if she forgets a child is diabetic, . If that was aimed at me, that is not what I said. However, I may not have put my point across very well. What I was trying to say was that every childs' experience of diabetes is different and therefore, they need to have an individual plan drawn up by their doctor/nurse that is specific to that child only and in my school, they always have done. I was trying to put the point across that a one size training does not fit all when it comes to Diabetes and therefore the OP needs to get a specific plan aimed only at her DD that both the DD and teachers follow and this can be highlighted in their meeting with the school and also with a chat with a medical professional.