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Original poster

To be FUMING that FiL has used racist language around ds.

207 replies

Stillhopingstillhere · 06/10/2013 19:04

Ds is 4.4 and has been to see my PiL this afternoon (without me). Dh took him. PIL are in their 70s and are quite ignorant in a lot of ways IMO.

Dh told me that today ds was playing shops with FIL. Apparently ds said to FIL "that will be ten pounds please." To which FIL replied "that's expensive, that's more than the p**is charge."

Dh told FIL not to say that again and ds hasn't repeated it (yet) but I am fuming! Fuming! As well as it being totally disgusting and offensive language I do not want ds repeating it unwittingly at school and being branded a racist. Or them thinking it's something we have said. I am genuinely quite horrified. Am I overreacting to this? Should I say something to FIL next time I see him too? Apparently he wasn't very apologetic and actually didn't seem to think he'd said anything wrong. I suppose partly it's generational but seriously, has this every been acceptable as a phrase? I think not.

OP posts:
allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 16:42

Well i would like mumsnet or yourself to reference what was insulting to other people, who was actually insulted? Or again, feel they should act insulted to conform with PC madness

BurberryQ · 07/10/2013 16:44

soz i cannot ref it cos it has been deleted...Grin

Blu · 07/10/2013 16:46

Using Pakistani as a description isn't rude, obviously, but there is a massive difference between 'The Paki Shop' and 'the shop on the corner - the one owned by the Pakistani family', for example.

And it isn't PC to refrain from using casually rude language about people, it's just decent and normal.

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 16:47

Yes, i can normally tell where someone is from, or have an educated guess. Somalian people have a certain look, chinese look different to Thai's, Italians or Spaniards have a certain look - What is wrong from seeing where someone is from by their facial charactoristics? You CAN normally tell if someone is of African or Caribbean, I dont get what the issue is on this one? People often think i'm Polish which i play up to when i can be bothered

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 16:49

there is a massive difference between The Paki Shop' and 'the shop on the corner - the one owned by the Pakistani family', for example.

Yeah i see the difference, one's abbreviated

Needingthework · 07/10/2013 16:51

All, I think what I am a little confused about is that if you think it's ok to use words that society sees as racist, where would you draw a line?

Would it be ok for my DH (White Brit) to go up to your partner and say 'Wassup N...a'? What if you have children with your partner (you may already have them), would it be ok for other children/adults to refer to them that way?

Blu · 07/10/2013 16:53

allforone: nope.

One has a different meaning. Language is sophisticated and allows us to express loads of meaning in very succinct ways. Nuances. Subleties. Beyond txtspeak, anyway.

To ignore that is either naive ignorant, willfully obstructive or a bit thick.

BlingBang · 07/10/2013 16:53

It depenends and I think intent does play a part. Some areas take longer to change and are quite insular, also ignorance thrown in as well. I used paki for the corner shop growing up, also tally van and chinki. I had no idea these terms refered to ethnicity or were offensive. I grew up and moved away and would never use them now. Some of my family still do, I pick them up on it usually. They don't mean any harm but yes it should be pointed out and challenged. Some people and some areas are just more ignorant, one of the reasons I no longer want to live there.

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 16:55

Saying something in light and jokey way with no malice is different to saying in a horrible way, as with all things. I just think that a lot of people are being branded racist for using the wrong terminology when they are not indeed hateful towards another culture or whatever at all. It's not fair.

TheBigJessie · 07/10/2013 16:56

It's difficult to give exact quotes, but the overall tenor was offensive due to your claims that p* shop was okay, because apparently you know some people who identify as pakistani and are okay with it.

So, you can magically tell a person's family's original country from their appearance, can you? You realise that can come down to a matter of a few square miles? There's a hell of a lot of countries in Africa, and they're not magically separated by moats.

Blu · 07/10/2013 16:58

"Saying something in light and jokey way with no malice is different to saying in a horrible way, as with all things."

This is true. But the OP of this thread has explained that the term Paki was used by a man who is actually actively racist, and was using the ter to describe someone charging too much money. So not epsecially light and jokey.

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 16:58

Would it be ok for my DH (White Brit) to go up to your partner and say 'Wassup N...a'?

Ohhhh you said white and Brit - Racist!

But you were only using it to describe the person

Why did you have to reference their colour - See how ridiculous that sounds in reverse??

And if he did that to my husband he woud prob burst out laughing and high five him, he'd probably greet him in the same way, it's just normal

BurberryQ · 07/10/2013 16:58

Saying something in light and jokey way with no malice is different to saying in a horrible way, as with all things - oh yeh i remember those funny light jokes about the Irish being drunken terrorists...how we laughed!

BurberryQ · 07/10/2013 16:59

oh and btw shagging a black man doesn't make you an expert on race relations Grin

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 17:01

"So, you can magically tell a person's family's original country from their appearance, can you?"

Why would i need to? I really dont get your point, like i said with some you can, some you cant, sometimes you get it right and sometimes not, you can always be corrected or just say
"Oh are you Greek?"
"well i'm Cypriot Greek"
"oh right"

There, that wasn't so hard

TheBigJessie · 07/10/2013 17:01

Burberry right laugh, weren't it. Especially when that bloke carrying a chairleg got shot dead by armed police because he had a Irish accent.

crazyspaniel · 07/10/2013 17:02

As someone who you would no doubt be happy to call a "paki", allfor, I can tell you that I was offended by your posts. I have no wish to be called by that term, having been on the receiving end of its use as a term of abuse plenty of times, thank you. I was also offended by your implication that I am as bad as the racists, and "a dickhead" (as I think I recall from your deleted post), for not liking having that word used to describe me. It's not for you to decide whether other people have the right to be offended or not, especially when it's them, not you, that's on the receiving end of that language. The fact that you are married to a black man and happen to know some Pakistani people does not make you the authority on the histories and feelings of ethnic minorities in this country, or the histories of the words used to "describe" them.

Needingthework · 07/10/2013 17:02

Erm, because your partner is Black, so just highlighting the fact that if someone for a different ethnicity approached someone from another ethnicity using racist terms, would that be ok with you?

Needingthework · 07/10/2013 17:03

Plus I never said that I find the terms Black and White racist Confused

N...ga and P..i, however...

ExcuseTypos · 07/10/2013 17:06

allfor. How often do you see and hear the term 'paki' used on the radio and TV, in mags and online in a 'jokey way with no malice intended'

Well zero is your answer, because its am unacceptable phrase and if you don't know that, you've been living in a cave for the last 30 years or you're incredibly stupid.

And I say that as someone who lived in the North as a child, in the 70s. We all referred to the local corner shop as the'paki' shop and the local Chinese as the 'chinki'. We moved somewhere else at age 11, and someone pointed out to me pretty quickly how offensive these terms are.
I've never used them since. If an 11 year old can understand that in 1976, why the fuck are we still having this conversation?

Blu · 07/10/2013 17:07

allforone: "Why would I need to?" You wouldn't, if you were simply going to talk about the Cornershop or the Newsagents.

TheBigJessie · 07/10/2013 17:11

The point is, that people are a lot more diverse than you think, and making erroneous assumptions is arrogant and hurtful in the first place. Why should anyone have to correct people's assumptions each and every day? Why is it important for you to try and categorise them straight off, esp. when your assumptions are likely miles out?

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 17:11

If you can be offended from reading a word that wasn't even said in a derogitory or demeaning manner and not even aimed at you then i really think you should grow a thicker skin!

allforoneandoneforall · 07/10/2013 17:17

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crazyspaniel · 07/10/2013 17:19

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