to think that Hamzah Kahn's father should be sent down alongside his mother?

[Bogeyface]

Hamzah's father, after his ex was found guilty of starving their 4 year old to death, said that he would "have to live with that for the rest of my life".

Live with what? With the fact that he did fuck all? His son lay dead for 2 years and his father had no clue, yet makes out he is a loving dad. If he was so loving he would have seen his child, seen the state of the house and the state the (his? sorry, I dont know if they were all his) other children were in. But he didnt. The 2 years between little Hamzah's death and his discovery should not have gone unchecked by any good dad, but in this case it did. At the very least, he would have gone to court to gain access, involved CAFCASS, social services, etc. But he did nothing.

Amanda Suttons stepfather says that she wasnt helped by the social services, which clearly she wasnt, but he puts the blame firmly at their feet. What was he doing? Was he offering to help look after the kids? Clean the house? Did he report her for help? No. He did nothing.

Seems to me that a lot of people who this little boy and his siblings should have been able to rely on preferred to look away.

AIBU to think that his father is just as culpable in his death as his mother?

he wasn't allowed near his children she killed that little boy not him she did it she abused her other children she kept people at bay from the house It was HER fault nobody elses she did it, this father maybe a wife abuser and neglectful but he was not allowed anywhere near nobody believed him

Wrong.

He wasnt allowed near his ex wife, there was nothing to stop him applying for access to his children. He would have had supervised access at first but that would eventually have given way to proper access at his home, as long as he proved a good father. DV against a partner does not remove a childs right to a relationship with both parents.

He did nothing because he didnt care enough, and as has been said, he only told the police once about the neglect and didnt follow it up with SS as they advised. And the neglect was happening when he was living in that house, he could have done something then but he didnt. He could have left her taking the kids with him, he didnt.

He could have done a lot of things and did precisely nothing.

randomAXEofkindness
"Did you actually read my op after the but that was criticizing (god forbid!) a man?"

Criticize a man all you like, but at least use evidence and facts to do so.

I heard the father interviewed yesterday, and my overwhelming reaction was 'it's all about me'.

ajandjj I thought it was pathetic self-serving whining. He should be ashamed. That interview said everything about how this tragedy occurred.

Buck-passing and Teflon behaviour.

'I told them and they did nothing.'

Hideous excuse of a father. They were his kids too.

Yup, they should be banged up together.

You can't simply say he should have kidnapped Hamzah. Baby P's father refused to give him back after an access visit as he suspected abuse and the police came and took Peter off him and returned him to his mother and his ultimate death. And he didn't even have a history of and convictions for domestic abuse.

I think the father in this case would probably have quite rightly surmised that if he had done that, not only would Hamzah have been returned anyway he would have been put in prison to boot. Particularly when his earlier warnings had gone unheeded.

Incidentally saying that she 'couldn't cope' or was ill as mitigation is a red herring.

Hamzah had a twin brother who was not starved and did not die. If she had the ability and resources to feed one child of the same age she was also capable of feeding Hamzah. She chose not to feed him. It was pure sadism and torture, not incompetence. If she was incapable both children would have been starved.

As the judge said she took against Hamzah from the day he was born and deliberately starved him.

Not kidnap him, but maybe go for access, or call social services and the police repeatedly about his neglect. If it was my child I wouldn't just mention it once and then leave it. Teachers in the Daniel Pelka case were criticised for not being persistent enough in reporting their concerns, why should even less be expected of a parent?

So, she took against him from birth, yet the father was living in the house until Hamzah was three and a half. He noticed something whilst he was still living there, as evidenced in his mention to the police after he was arrested - they separated after this incident and she moved house. Yet he clearly did bog all when he was there and then thought that one mention to the police whilst being questioned about a crime was enough. And so do loads of people!

Crikey, I knew expectations of fathers were low from some quarters, but I didn't realise just how low. If there were all these attempts in engaging her with help that she refused, did those agencies also attempt to engage him? If not, why not? If so, why did he not accept the help?

I am only guessing, but I assume that the neglect charges arose from the situation in the house when Hamzah's body was found, when the father wasn't there. There is no actual proof that there was any neglect before that, only the father's comments in the police interview. (Not saying there wasn't, just that the CPS needs something to work with.)

Did he mention in the interview if the rest of the children were living wth him now, btw?

Timeline here.

I heard an interview on the radio with the father yesterday and I felt very uneasy listening to him. As a previous poster has said he made it all about him and repeatedly said 'why should I be the villain' and 'I was sick of being the bad guy' when asked why he didn't make more of a fuss. Whilst he clearly did try to some extent to get the attention of the authorities I don't think he tried hard enough and to give up because he didn't want to be the bad guy is unacceptable.

He didn't do himself any favours in court

"Mr Khan was asked again about the call he said he made to social services.

He said: “This country is run for women. A man’s got no rights in this country.”

Mr Meadowcroft told him: “You were the father of the family. You were there. Had you actually thought that (Hamzah’s neglect)? What did you do about it?”

Mr Khan told the court: “The police wouldn’t believe me. No one would believe me.

“I know I made one phone call. If the police weren’t going to believe me, who else is going to believe me? I gave up.

“The system failed my son. Did the school check up? Did social services check up? I lost my total confidence in the system.”"

No good enough, mate.

Anybody think sometime soon Mr Khan is going to be trolling boards like Mumsnet with his "I am the victim here, society has gone too far towards females" outpourings of shit ?

He sounds like a right piece of work.

Women are to be knocked up and knocked about. You can walk out on your family and ignore neglect (as many people have pointed out, he was living with the family until the poor child was 3 - wearing baby clothes). What a shit excuse for a man. He should have his whotzits chopped off so that he can't have any more kids.

When the reports say that people visiting the house saw the child healthy, dressed and ok, was it his twin they were shown then? It must've been, or it would have been noted that he was tinly for his age.

AnyFucker, maybe it's BoneyBack - you've got no evidence! - Jefferson

More from his testimony

'He said: “She wasn’t bathing him. She wasn’t changing him.”

And Mr Khan said he would only see Hutton feeding Hamzah milk. He said his former partner drank cider and vodka heavily, especially after the death of her mother.

“She’d be absolutely out of it,” he said.'

So, while living there, he did nothing about the care that his son needed, despite his wife not bathing him, not feeding him, and being 'absolutely out of it' as he puts it.

I've read posts on this forum from men who had alcoholic wives/partners, and while it's clear it is absolute hell living with someone like that, not one of them have said they stood back and watched while their own child was neglected by an 'absolutely out of it' alcoholic.

He absolutely should be in jail for his part in the neglect of his own children, when that neglect, which he witnessed and did nothing about, resulted in one of his children dying in the most appaulling circumstances.

I agree. His neglect and his failure too.

axe you could be right

I see echoes of this shit in quite a few of the FWR trolls. All the same innit. Nothing ever their fault.

If the child were a dog, the father would be jailed for neglect and cruelty.

The father wasn't living in fear of his wife so was too scared to do something while he lived there. He just watched. There is no reason why he didn't care for his own child. He sat on his arse while 'she' starved his child. Couldn't he feed or change the child? What stopped him in the first 3 years of his life? The neglect didn't just happen, it must have been from the get go with this child.

People like this only feel for themselves. Only pity themselves. And yet they have children , and have more - why?

So she wasnt feeding and changing him, why didnt his father?

The more I find out the more I am convinced that that bastard should be in jail too.

What really got to me was when the interviewer asked 'what does the future hold for you', his response was along the lines I've got to get over it and get on with my life.

What about the other children? Would the response of any caring and responsible parent be 'I need to give my other children a home, and help them get over this tragedy'.

I wanted to smack him!

So OP - to answer your question - YADNBU.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I read this heartbreaking thread on Dadsnet the other day about a very desperate father trying to get action from SS in a very similar situation as Ms Hutton.

It highlights how, even when fathers are very worried and demand help and intervention from SS, it doesn't always happen very easily.

I'm not sure what happened to this child/dad in question but I hope the child is ok.

That's very upsetting to read. DH has had a similar reaction from SS trying to get them to intervene with DSS, although the situation is very different and the abuse emotional not physical. Several years ago when SS were involved DH only found out from the police months after the incidents had happened, SS didn't inform him despite him seeing DSS regularly and having parental responsibility.

Out of interest, is Hamzah's father than father of the rest of the children too?

I am fairly sure he is the father of all 8 children.

random

If pot shots are what your argument boils down to then you really don't have much.

So a woman lets her child die in horrible circumstances & it's the father's fault. That doesn't surprise me on MN! Of course it isn't the mother's fault!

How easy would it have been to facilitate access of any kind with a toddler if you have to stay away from the toddlers mother?

Also, we do not know what happened, do we? We don't know how & when & if he tried to get access & what was said to him to prevent it.