Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Hamzah Kahn's father should be sent down alongside his mother?

219 replies

Bogeyface · 04/10/2013 22:17

Hamzah's father, after his ex was found guilty of starving their 4 year old to death, said that he would "have to live with that for the rest of my life".

Live with what? With the fact that he did fuck all? His son lay dead for 2 years and his father had no clue, yet makes out he is a loving dad. If he was so loving he would have seen his child, seen the state of the house and the state the (his? sorry, I dont know if they were all his) other children were in. But he didnt. The 2 years between little Hamzah's death and his discovery should not have gone unchecked by any good dad, but in this case it did. At the very least, he would have gone to court to gain access, involved CAFCASS, social services, etc. But he did nothing.

Amanda Suttons stepfather says that she wasnt helped by the social services, which clearly she wasnt, but he puts the blame firmly at their feet. What was he doing? Was he offering to help look after the kids? Clean the house? Did he report her for help? No. He did nothing.

Seems to me that a lot of people who this little boy and his siblings should have been able to rely on preferred to look away.

AIBU to think that his father is just as culpable in his death as his mother?

OP posts:
Original poster
Bogeyface · 04/10/2013 22:41

Any father who cares about his children will do whatever they can to see them and it is very very rare that a father is not granted some form of access to his children, usually supervised. The fact that he had no access at all tells me that he didnt fight for it, so therefore implying that he did everything he could is a downright lie.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bogeyface · 04/10/2013 22:42

Even fathers in prison are granted access, so why wasnt he?

OP posts:
meditrina · 04/10/2013 22:43

Reporting restrictions were not fully lifted.

There are a number of questions to which there is no adequate public response.

BillyBanter · 04/10/2013 22:56

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. You're speaking from a position of ignorance and in no position to judge this man.

ExcuseTypos · 04/10/2013 23:05

This is taken from the BBC News website.

''Mr Khan had been arrested on suspicion of violence towards his former partner, Ms Hutton, but told officers: "You've got to keep an eye on that woman.

"All I want you to do is get a doctor to check Hamzah, check how undernourished he is, check how neglected he is, see how he is. "

Jurors also heard how Mr Khan told police Ms Hutton was an alcoholic and there were vodka bottles all over the house.

He said she would not let him take Hamzah to a doctor and that she was "overpowering" and "an alcoholic".

In the interview he warned police: "When it all comes out I'll come back and see you and say I told you so... you guys are not listening."

Unfortunatley they chose to ignore him.

Lazyjaney · 04/10/2013 23:09

He had warned the police but had restraint orders against him, as he had been convicted of domestic abuse, so risked further arrest and imprisonment if he went near her. And I dont think anybody thinks these situations will come to this sort of end, as they are so rare.

It's a crappy situation, but he was not the problem here.

teenagetantrums · 04/10/2013 23:17

I think he should have tried harder to see his son, but he did ask the police and social services to check on his son. Her adult son knew there was a body in the house and did nothing. She is obviously a very ill lady with a hold over her other children, its a very situation but no point in looking for more people to lock up it wont help.

SeaSickSal · 04/10/2013 23:17

This woman had stopped anybody in authority from getting anywhere near this child.

He did not go to school when he was supposed to and this was all overlooked (even though he was actually already dead).

We don't know if the father made any attempt to gain access to his son. But given the fact that this woman would not engage with anyone in authority even if he had tried to gain access it's extremely unlikely that he would have gained access as she would not have engaged with that process either.

HeySoulSister · 04/10/2013 23:22

Battered woman's syndrome?? Pnd?

How about she was just a nasty evil mother?

Why dress it up as anything else?

gertrudetrain · 04/10/2013 23:22

This was in Bradford. I was brought up here. The cultural issues, combined with the pockets of deprivation, combined with police being stretched and dealing with high crime, low community integration and a complete lack of multi agency communication mean this was a case waiting to happen. The 'guilt' lies with the woman who strafed then held her dead child, opened a bottle of vodka, ordered a pizza and held a knife to the throat of her DC to keep her eldest quiet. She is culpable. Everyone else failed their duty if care but she holds responsibility. She is reprehensible.

BillyBanter · 04/10/2013 23:34

This woman lied to everyone, manipulated everyone, obstructed everyone, was violent to her other children and starved her child to death. I don't think it's too much of a leap to wonder whether she also abused her husband, trumped up charges against him that landed him in jail, sullied his name and word, and obstructed his access to his children.

Goofymum · 04/10/2013 23:43

I just don't understand how someone like this can manipulate and obstruct everyone. It's not the first time we've heard that many HVs tried to enter the house but were obstructed by her. Or the police were called countless times. The poor little boy was even struck off the local doctors surgery list as he missed too many appointments. No joined up thinking. Again, so many alarm bells, everyone saying afterwards their warning were not heeded. I just don't understand how this little mite and countless others have fallen through the net.

nicename · 04/10/2013 23:43

I don't know why anyone - friends, family, social services... could think that a lone parent with 8 kids could be coping. I may be wrong, but parenting is a hard job. Being a lone parent is bloody hard, but being a lone parent with 8 kids?

Why weren't people sticking their noses in - and I mean specifically family.

If I had a sister in her situation, even if I hated her guts, I'd be keeping an eye on the kids. Where were the dads family? You are telling me that no-one on either side wondered where their grandchild, nephew, cousin was?

FreudiansSlipper · 04/10/2013 23:46

i do not think it is as simple as that. maybe he could have kept on trying he has to live with that, that is his sentence

she was/is mentally ill is she still guilty well yes she threatened her other children, the house they lived in is horrendous what the other children went through too i can not imagine

and i am not one for blaming social services it is hard dealing with people who constantly lie as they are always one step ahead but something very seriously went wrong here with their investigations

ExcuseTypos · 04/10/2013 23:48

I agree with you BillyBanter.

NotYoMomma · 04/10/2013 23:48

I blame the mother 100%

he did try the get the police to help and to assess his son as being undernourished.

this woman is an evil manipulative alcoholic who murdered her child and lied to so many people and neglected and abused her other kids too!

HeySoulSister · 04/10/2013 23:49

Mentally ill? Was she?

HeySoulSister · 04/10/2013 23:50

And what has being a lone parent got to do with it?

Finola1step · 04/10/2013 23:54

The child died if starvation. That is all one needs to know.

The child was failed by all the adults in his life.

Undoubtedly there will be yet another report highlighting failings and recommending better communication between agencies.

Hamzah is not the first and he will not be the last.

His mother should have been tried for murder.

FreudiansSlipper · 04/10/2013 23:55

do you not think someone living in the state she was with her children, drinking the about she was. leaving her dead child for two years is not mentally ill

it does not mean that she is not guilty but she is/was not functioning like a healthy adult

nicename · 04/10/2013 23:55

The fact she was a lone parent = she was the sole carer of 8 children. Who the hell could cope well with 8 kids on their own?

Finola1step · 04/10/2013 23:57

nice. Lots of men and women cope with large families.

Very few parents starve their children to death.

This is nothing to do with her being a single parent. It would be offensive to suggest that it might be.

nicename · 05/10/2013 00:01

I'm not saying its because she is a lone parent. I'm from a large family with 2 parents and extended family and I know it's a lot of hard work.

A woman alone, no family support, probably no friends, keeping every one at arms length, 8 kids. Not exactly a walk in the park.

Any parent of several kids bringing them up by themselves will tell you it is knackering.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/10/2013 00:02

its a factor not the reason

like her drinking was a factor in the case but not the reason

OutragedFromLeeds · 05/10/2013 00:10

YANBU