Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

No your not bu. I agree with EDIT. Its shocking. where I live the primary schools are top notch, however the high school....well Im planning on moving put it that way!!

Its down to the parents and the school should have more control and power to discipline. 11+ kids know that no one can touch them by law and so do want they want. The heads wont address it.

times have changed and so the law needs to change with it...

Absolutely agree with Starlight on this one. The child should have been supported in class if it was known that he had additional needs. It certainly doesn't mean they don't belong in main stream classes.

echt yes, funding is always an issue, it seems. But many many students with SNs DO benefit from being in MS classes.

Thinking back to my school, I don't think behaviour was any better really. And if I was at school now, I wouldn't have been able to hideously underachieve either. But I agree there's less respect for teachers today and this definitely affects attitudes and behaviour in school.

One observation though. DH used to teach in deprived area and although he had some extremes, on the whole the behaviour was really good. He then moved to a school with a very MC catchment and the extremes are no less, but the overall behaviour is appalling. The sense of entitlement is astonishing. He thinks it's because the first school had a better behaviour management strategy in place, whereas the current one leaves it to the MC parents.

I think In our day (80s) if you misbehaved there were definite non negotiable punishments: corporal punishment (not condoning this at all as witnessed some cases of sadistic teachers), suspensions and being expelled permanently. There was very little pupil or parent power and what the school said went. There were always the one or two hard core kids who would misbehave no matter what and were swiftly dealt with but the punishment did deter the ones who were thinking of misbehaving. Parents knew if their dcs were expelled it was unlikely another school would take them so they'll be sent to a PRU. It did mean the majority of dcs didn't get their education disrupted and actually learnt something at school.

I left teaching in 2003 with absolutely no mention of autism since I started university in 1991.

'I'm afraid I didn't want my dd to have to co-exist with the immoral, the dysfunctional, the violent and the downright disruptive in the name of inclusion.'

Wow! How do you propose to keep your child away from 'the dysfunctional' as she goes about daily life? Or do you think that people deemed 'dysfunctional' should be shut away somewhere?!

The child who was just violent came from a home with very relaxed parenting. The child with ADD came from a very stressed home. His mother was trying her best to raise him on his own. She had minimal family support. She couldn't afford the care he needed so he was home a lot. He was often at our house. He rarely acted up at our house but we had firm structure in place and he was told that if he didn't behave he wouldn't be invited back.

oh god... the old "give him to me for a week and I'll whip him into shape" analogy..... sigh....

we've really hit rock bottom now...

"Actually standard of behaviour are worse if it is blamed on the child/parent as this is often given as a reason to leave them unsupported, confused and on fight or flight alert"

Absolutely.

Triggles I had that from a woman in the supermarket. She claimed it would take her an hour to cure DS' autism.

Goodness. If I had see the research you quite on children of relaxed parents never having SN I woukd have changed my ways fast and cured my ds.

Anais yep, I've gotten that one too... and people that claimed that DS1 just needed a "good smack" and "more discipline"... yes, of course.... will that rewire his brain then?

MNHQ - can we maybe add something to this page

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/this-is-my-child

Can we please add "PARENTING STYLES DO NOT CAUSE SPECIAL NEEDS OR DISABILITIES"

Thanks muchly.

Oh yes, the ubiquitous "good smack"

Makes me wonder if that's one of the reasons why there are more children like my DS around. He doesn't feel pain or hunger or tiredness and I often think that many children like him might not have survived toddler-hood in less-enlightened times...

There are a number of children who are a PITA and who don't have an SN, other than a lack of understanding that people may be poorer, less articulate and less physically attractive and yet are still entitled to equal time and respect to them. The shock when you point it out is occasionally combined with a sneer.
The disbelief when you tell them that something they have done is not acceptable is also revealing.
But I stick to the point, stay calm and polite, and cover my arse (documentation, truthfulness and witnesses) and it seems to work out well in the end.

I find a lot of the strategies I use with my DS are also often useful in class with NT children.

Silver

I know a fair few adults like that.

Anais, they were around back then. They were the ones good at enduring the unendurable, and who didn't complain when they were maltreated.

I have been teaching for 25 years, in a variety of schools, and for the last 12 in the same one - so I think I probably have a relevant perspective on this. Inclusion is not the problem - most issues don't arise from statemented pupils as they have support/the teacher has knowledge of their needs.
I was discussing this with a colleague last week. 10 years ago we had some 'nutters' - excuse the non-PC phrasing, but it seemed appropriate then. They were dangerous and violent. There were not many of them, but they had a disproportionate effect on lessons. Looking back, they may have had unidentified AN. We have got much better at identifying and dealing with these. Nowadays, though, the low level, irritating disruption from neuro-typical and socially quite advantaged pupils has become almost intolerable. That is the issue and it is a serious one. I have no clue how to deal with it.

I think the kid with ADD needed support from all angles. His mother needed better support to begin with. His GP should have been involved and the LEA should have been a lot more forthcoming with help too.

The child had very few friends at school because no one wanted to be around him. So while an inclusive approach sounds great, I don't see how it would help this child. He wasn't bullied so much as shuned/ignored by the other children.

Want a story?
My mum was a primary teacher who quit, then went to work in Whitehall, surrounded by arrogance and male privilege and Colonels and Brigadiers and all the strutting peacock majesty of the self-important.
She found many of her skills useful and relevant. No SN there either, just an overwhelming flood of egos.