Why do you think behaviour in schools is so much worse than even 10 yrs ago.

[soul2000]

This is not a joke thread. I am generally interested as to how much the standard of behaviour has deteriated in the last 25 years since i left school.

What amazes me, is that teachers are not shocked when watching programes like educating yorkshire, that just shows how bad the behaviour of some pupils is.

Another shocking thing is that pupils who in my time would have been labeled a menace "ME INCLUDED" are now seen as upstanding pupils.

How has the standard fallen so far and what can be done to re address the balance.

This thread is in support of teachers.

I agree zzzz wholeheartedly

Exactly what I've been saying

But nothing to do with taxes, all children deserve appropriate education in the best environment

Even within SEN units and behavioural units there are children who cannot cope - these children need more than a mainstream school, even one with dedicated units which not all have, can offer

some excel

And some join the mainstream community but some remain in support units their entire school career

Many students with SEN are entirely mainstream with some additional support

ASD is a good example of an increasingly commonly used catch all for a wide range of special needs.

Perhaps the example is used because it encompasses children who flourish in mainstream and children who simply wouldn't cope.

Because we are taliking about, in the main, an academic education, where most children at secondary school are studying for academic qualifications? Are they not?

At the risk of repeating myself, if a child is working at an academic level far below their peers how would they access the curriculum? Adaptions can be made to help children access lessons, but surely they need a specialist education if academic capabilities are so little. No, not all NT children are academic, but that doesn't mean they can't access the curriculum at all, just that they achieve a little bit lower than some others, it is a spectrum.

I think you need to talk with their parents. A lot of parents and children cope to such an extent an outsider may not even know they have difficulties a lot of the time.

Very reasonable adjustments can make a huge amount of difference. Yet a lot of teachers do not wish to truly engage with parents and do not value or respect their experiences.

The children can have Statements and funded provision that does not even reach them, when schools do not adhere to what is outlined in the Statement. Parents are often not even informed of the detail in provision their child is receiving.

If you read the SN boards this is true for a lot of cases.

Isabella Special need, not catered for adequately, can mask academic ability.

It is a catch all for a wide range of special needs in educational terms - a child with ASD may be a fluent communicator or completely incapable of speech or somewhere in between - he/ she may have severe sensory issues or none, they may find it difficult to understand social cues or they may have a strong grasp on what reaction is expected

Perhaps the example is used because it encompasses children who flourish in mainstream and children who simply wouldn't cope.

This^ and the above issues could be true of any number of diagnoses. The diagnosis shouldn't matter (approx 50% of children with learning difficulties do not have a diagnosis) as the level of support should be judged on the child's individual needs. Catch all phrases are useless when assessing an individuals abilities and needs.

sorry, that should issues below!

You have to remember that it is never as simple as has/has not SEN.

Having a child with SEN can mean they are extremely difficult to parent. Having a child with an undiagnosed and unaddressed SEN that affects behaviour can break up families, lead to depression or escape behaviour such as addiction.

Hidden disabilities are often 'hidden' at school, resulting in the illegal reallocation of support (read the 1:1 thread where teachers admitted this) on the whim causing much worse behaviour at home and, eventually after years of pent up anxiety, behaviour deteriorates at school.

It is easy in these above situations to blame the behavioural difficulties of the child on the home.

In addition, many parents of children with SN have SN themselves and can find it impossible to navigate the system of support, police the provision and/or advocate for their children, defend accusations against them or even find the evidence/belief that gives them confidence that it ISN'T their fault. In fact, it is positively encouraged to set them up as the reason for their child's behaviours as this because blame is the cheapest intervention.

I have read recent research that uses that exact term with regards to autism and ASD diagnosis - if I have time I will try to dig it out tomorrow but please know that I am neither glib nor inexperienced in this area

"One of the biggest challenges is that autism is not one thing: It's a catchall diagnosis that likely includes a host of biologically distinct disorders. Though children with autism share a set of symptoms, these symptoms are quite varied and may have many, diverse biological origins. "Autism is incredibly heterogeneous. We've been lumping everyone together under this name autism, and unfortunately it makes it very difficult to study the biological features when we are treating multiple groups as one," says Sophia Colamarino, '90, vice president of research for Autism Speaks—a science and advocacy group—and consulting associate professor of psychiatry and behavioral science. To get a toehold into the biology, researchers will need to identify unique subgroups of autism, she says. Researchers across the globe are defining subgroups based on genes, molecular pathways, or signatures in the brain and blood."

alumni.stanford.edu/get/page/magazine/article/?article_id=28130

My son has severe autism and is academically advanced for his age.

My nephew has no diagnosis of a specific condition but is bottom of the class because someone has to be.

If you're wanting to exclude those with SN from the GSCE curriculum why not remove the bottom, say, third of the NT children?

People would be outraged and rightly so.

Why would you remove children with SEN from the GCSE curriculum?

I wonder why they aren't studying GCSE's then at the local SN school? hmm

If you can't see the difference between being of lower academic ability but NT and having a severe learning disability then there's no point me even discussing this.

I'll say it again,

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

I was addressing Isabelle who was saying that those with severe autism wouldn't get any GCSEs so it's pointless to have these children in mainstream.

My nephew is likely to leave school with none at all but nobody has suggested special education for him because socially and emotionally, he's at the right level.

In my son's special school the more able do study GSCEs

You said:

I am struggling to understand how you expect a child with severe learning disabilities, such as those of a severely autistic child" thus equating severe autism with severe learning disability.

People are pointing out that this is incorrect.

'was discussing with a colleague who teaches at a local SN school and she said the average child in their school only reaches about level 2 of the national curriculum. hat is a severe learning disability, how would they cope in a GCSE class?'

Perhaps they'd reach level 3?

The type of education needed by most children with communication disorders is 'communication'.

It requires specialist input but often, crucially, typically communicating peers.

Further, many special schools in this country are failing our kids quite spectacularly with their low expectations and valuable learning time being spent in ball pits.

Starlight

sorry if you are being sarcastic, I couldnt quite tell, but just in case level 2 means National Curriculum level 2 - the national expectation of a 7 year old - you can't put a level 2 child in a GCSE class - they would simply not be able to access it no matter the support