To think teachers are actually better off than those in the private sector

[coco44]

(Mumsnet Bosses
Please may I rephrase the debate in a more measured way)

You sound like a communist leader talking about the big bad corporations ripping off their workers...

BA cabin crew are extremely well paid for what they actually do, the role has changed considerably as is much much less glam than it was. I thought they were being greedy tbh.

For most people now flying is a means to an end, hence the rise of the low cost airlines. Do I care who I fly with on a short haul flight, not really. Would I pay a premium to fly BA because their crew are paid considerably more than say Easy Jet. No I wouldnt and I expect most on this thread agree.

handcream, with all due respect, you don't know the real story. My mother was a teacher for 40 years too. Her job was a million miles from what I do. In fact, she listens to what I do with incredulity. In fact, my own job today is very different from how it was even when I started out 27 years ago. Much, MUCH harder work, and not easy to continue to make my lessons as fun and child-centred as we were allowed to then. And as I work in the same area as I always have done, with similar catchment, I can tell you that the bar for behaviour has dramatically lowered in that time, so managing that effectively is way more challenging than it ever was.
And having children at school nowadays doesn't equip you to know the fine detail if what goes on, either although you wouldn't know it reading threads on here.

Here we go again, as I am NOT a teacher I cannot possible know what it is like... If I was a teacher I guess you presume that I would feel like yo.u. Job done. We all agree with each other. Well I dont agree with teachers striking for their own ends. I really dont.

Erm teaching standards 40 years ago were hardly the glory days,sorry but you're talking about the 70s when standards were shite. My mother was also teaching back then and although far from perfect feels standards are better now.

If you constantly erode the rights of a professional body, move the goalposts, make their job more difficult and fail to make Performance related pay proposals reasonable, then you will drive excellence out . Whatever the profession happens to be .

That's why I support the strike and why I don't see it as teachers doing it for themselves; they are doing it for the good of our children and the children of the future. Being a teacher is a hugely important role and I for one want a profession which is treated decently.

Err - no she wasnt teaching 40 years ago. She has retired but still does two days at her old school so not out of touch at all

"Here we go again, as I am NOT a teacher I cannot possible know what it is like"
Yes, that's exactly it! You can't, I'm afraid. In the same way that I don't know what it's like being a doctor, despite having been in hospital a few times in my life and my best friend being one. I have a bit of insider information from her, but would never presume to know much more. If she were ever to strike, I would have faith in her and her profession that things must be pretty bloody bad.

And if you read any of these threads properly, you'd know that the strike is NOT just for "their own ends." There is massive concern for the action Gove is taking that will affect YOUR children's education for the worse.

Some of us are speaking as parents now and as I said some of the new measures however unpopular have benefited a lot of children.Our children.Some won't and are barking but I think the unions are being sneaky.Listing official reasons but apparently striking for others.Saying education needs to be saved,every new policy is wrong.Be more specific,I don't agree that every decision is wrong(let's face it there has been an avalanche of new measures) so plenty to pick through.

I don't agree with chucking the baby out with the bath water.Focus on the shite educational policies and I'd support the strike if I agreed on those in particular.

Posters are making valid points re the reasons against striking.

The whole pension system for everybody is changing,it has to.Performance related pay is needed imvho and things like PPA time tends to get abused imvho in some schools.

We haven't had a comprehensive official union list on here.

The fact is posters don't have to agree to strikes if we don't agree with the reasons listed and I don't.Sorry.

The goalposts need to be moved in some schools.

Just because some have dc in schools where everything is perfect or are teaching in a perfect school why should you begrudge improvements for others?

My kids are in the middle of everything.Will have missed all the new phonic teaching,maths expectations,standards/ expectations in everything are going to be higher so chances are they'll end up with lower exam grades a few years down the line.

Do I begrudge the children who will benefit from those further down the line?No.

Here we go again, as I am NOT a teacher I cannot possible know what it is like

Well, yes, of course. How can you possibly know? What do you know about safe-guarding, for example, or APPs? Those would be some of the very basic day to day aspects of teaching and there are many, many more.

So anybody without a medical degree isn't free to have an opinion on the NHS?

I cuts both ways.

Surely those not in teaching shouldn't comment either way if we're going by that rather narrow view.

I didn't say an opinion wasn't allowed about the NHS in general. The point was about knowing the intricate day-to-day stresses of someone else's job.

I wouldn't presume to know about anyone else's job other than something I've directly experienced. But the whole world and his wife seems to think that teaching's fair game, because they once went to school.

So then really both sides shouldn't comment unless you think only those with positive views should be allowed to post.

Fgs - do you realise how silly this is sounding. You can comment on teachers only if you are one and agree with me!

What? Who said that?

You said you knew all about teaching because your mother was one. I said that, no, that didn't mean you knew everything about it - meaning the job.
I'm well aware that many people have opinions about the ethics of striking. That's natural. Whether you can fully comprehend the frustrations and pressures of the teaching job if you've never done it, is another matter entirely. Which was my only point.

handcream and retropear, no-one has said you must agree with them, or that you shouldn't post your views, but you will be called on the quality/relevance of your arguments and observations.

clam is quite right to point out that commenting on certain aspects of teaching is compromised if you've not done it yourself.

Yes but the vociferous posts from posters who have never set foot in a classroom in a teaching capacity commenting on major teaching issues are equally compromised.

There are such posts on both sides of the fence,you don't seem to have a problem with those arguing in your favour.

We all have different things to bring to the party,seems to me it's obvious there will be all sorts of differing views.

Did I ever say I knew all about teaching? What I do have is a close family member still in the profession and two children in full time education. Are you saying anyone who isnt a teacher cannot possibly comment on what is going on!

Maybe I could say then that teachers really dont understand what its like to have 4 weeks holiday, they have considerably more so they cannot possibly understand the restrictions we are under when they strike, having to take a day off from our leave entitlement and such like...

DH is a teacher. That qualifies me to have enough understanding of what their job actually entails to support them. I am not a teacher so that doesn't qualify me to pretend to have sufficient understanding to criticise them.

I see that DH sits working every night until after 10pm. But I don't know what it's like to do that after a whole day's teaching. Jeez I'm exhausted enough after helping out on a school trip!

Doesnt count chicagupa unless of course you are in favour of some of the views on here.

You arent a REAL teacher....

so they cannot possibly understand the restrictions we are under when they strike, having to take a day off from our leave entitlement and such like

That could be a fair point but it would only apply to those that went straight into teaching.

But if the strike's your beef, what do you think they should do, if they feel that the undermining of the profession will have a detrimental effect on your DC's education?

Do they have a responsibility to fight for their profession or do they sit by and watch it being pulled apart by someone whose head's stuck so far up his own arse he can't hear what people are saying to him?

And then shrug their shoulders and go and get another job? Would that be more less self-serving than striking?

Yes, handcream, you are right to say that teachers don't know what it's like to take time off from annual leave to cover for a strike.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't strike though.