To think teachers are actually better off than those in the private sector

[coco44]

(Mumsnet Bosses
Please may I rephrase the debate in a more measured way)

Actually Gove has improved some things in our school.

I personally don't want to pay more tax to fund these demands,would rather have more to put in our own pensions

Who's asking you to pay more tax?

There is no money.

Where do you suggest the funding should one from to pay for teachers to retire earlier than everybody else,have pensions we can't afford etc.

There is no money fairy.

Are teachers pensions in line with local government? We can't retire till 67.

Retro Actually I'll be retiring earlier than teachers and other public sector workers and I pay less into my DB pension than them.

But you are concentrating on pensions when there have been posts and posts about the main gripes being about working conditions and detrimental changes to the state education system. So either you are being a bit disingenuous or a bit stupid.

Do you want your taxes to fund a shit education system or a better one? The money fairy can take its funding from the MPs pay & benefits or from the millions it spends on wars. I'd rather spend it on DC's education frankly.

Well considering the NUTs reasons for striking poster focuses on t&c only I'm hardly stupid so no need for rudeness.

Some of the changes are well overdue and my dc have benefited,sorry.

Re spending money yes I'd like the education budget to go on buildings,more teachers and resources not PPA time,pensions we can't afford or a retirement age we can no longer afford.

We are living for longer everybody has to deal with that.

"People who have a voice should not silence it because others do not have one."

Very well put.

We are living for longer. But the amount of time we spend in poor health before death, is also increasing.

Who has said teachers are asking to retire earlier than everyone else?

It seems to me the strikes are very much a last resort because of t and c being eroded far beyond what is reasonable (given that yes, we're all having to get used to paying a lot more into our pension pots)
And as for the constant messing about with curriculum and exams... Gove is an idiot who doesn't look at what's going on under his nose.

The teachers I know ( whether they are choosing to strike or not) have Thought long and hard about this. None of them like the situation and its a very last resort because they fear for the future of education

Errr the NUT they don't agree with the gov raising the age you get your pension.

Soooooo just how are we supposed to fund everybody living longer but not working longer?

There are other professions (eg forces, police) where retirement age has been earlier than many others for years, so it's utter bollocks to say the teachers are asking to retire earlier than everyone else, as was stated upthread

For the record I have not said I do not support the strikes at all.

I support the strikes. But it is obvious that forces and fire fighter retirement ages need to be lower. You physically arenot up to it beyond a certain age.

I'm not disputing that grennie: I am disputing that teachers are asking to retire younger than all other workers as was stated . An astonishing amount of misinformation on this thread

The NUT is campaigning against teachers pensions being linked to the state pension at 68.

So when the rest of us retire at 68 what are they proposing teachers do?

It's ludicrous, just how to they expect people to have enough in their pension when living longer.

I object to the fact they've changed all 3 of the 'tent poles' of the pension. Given the situation I would happily pay more and work longer to get the pension I signed up for. But that's not what's happening.
Interestingly, many teachers take early retirement as it is (particularly those with a large amount of contact time). I think there are a range of imaginative solutions none of which are currently being considered.
Completely different issue but has anyone considered where all the new jobs for young people will come from if people don't retire? The graduate market is already very difficult!

It's only a few years extra,hardly a lifetime.

Raven and everybody else. I have said i have 6 friends as teachers and i respect all of them.

You may of read a post of mine on the 3rd of september this year, about
the most brilliant person i know, on the forcing people to continue with maths and english until they achieve a C post.

If you have read my post, you will know that i admire my friend who at the age of 13 was deemed "Thick" and unteachable and 10 years after leaving education without a single qualification, decided to get an education and ended up with a masters in chemistry.

You will also know that she has gone in to the classroom to help pupils
like herself and puts herself out to ridiculous levels for a 2nd year salary of £23k.

My respect for my friend and other friends in teaching bar "HIM" is great.
I am pointing out that "OFSTED" are crap in rating him because he when needed could put a good lesson on and fool them.

Also i am just pointing out that like any profession/job 1 in 10 is not up to the job their are doing.

The thing is, unless you have actually done a teaching job, you have absolutely no idea how physically demanding it is. Yes, and for nurses too. Paperwork and preparation aside (and the poster who objected to PPA time has no idea of the direct and indirect benefits to the children from their teachers having a small amount of scheduled, ring-fenced time to plan, prepare and assess their work) from the minute the children arrive in school, teachers are on their feet performing. All day. Juggling behaviour, delivering lessons in a lively and inspiring way, batting a constant barrage of questions back with informed answers and thinking of inventive ways to move children's learning on. There's no let-up. No time to go to the loo or even grab a coffee many days. If you're feeling the slightest bit under the weather, there's no "well, I'll take it easy today." If you're on the premises and vertical, you're fair game and you have to produce the goods.

I think most of us will struggle to do that at 60, let alone at 67. I don't have any particular objection to working beyond 60 in principle, but not at the chalk-face, as I'm pretty sure I won't be able to do as an effective job as I do today. My friend who is a district nurse says the same thing. Office workers have the much easier physical option. I know that INSET days at school are immeasurably less tiring than days when the children are in.

Clam. What if and i am sure there are some teachers of 67or 68 who still have the energy.
They want to continue teaching because they thrive and still love teaching kids "Maybe not the politics".

Would you say to them you have got to stop because your 68 or do you think they should decide when to stop.

However i do agree that for a lot of teachers 63-65 might be the right age to retire but everyone is different.

Then they should be able to continue if they want to.
But that doesn't mean everyone else has to be forced to.

As a retired woman whose husband has worked all his life in the private sector, I have to say that out all of our retired friends teachers are on average the most affluent as shown by their homes, holidays and general standard of living.Of course there are the exceptions like ex BP directors, but they make up a very small percentage of the retired population as compared to teachers.
Teachers also have wonderful job security. My husband, like many fellow private sector employees has been made redundant (three times and on the last occasion we would have lost our house at age 60 had not my father died and left us some money.We have also endured pay cuts and not being paid for two/three months simply to keep the company going. This included the directors.Many of our friends who worked for small to medium sized companies have endured this lack of security, which also means that payments into pensions are put on the back burner, as money has to tide one over during the bad times.
Also, I don't know who the poster was who said all her private sector acquaintances earned around £100,000, because most senior people in small and medium sized firms don't earn anywhere near that figure.In fact if one looks at UK salary averages only a small percentage of the population earn that level of salary. I should also add that my husband is a graduate with a very good degree as are most of our private sector friends.

Gormeghost. You are so right about everything you say.

As a percentage only 1% of the U.K workforce earned 100k or more
only 10% of the U.K workforce earned over 50k.

Quite a few of the schools in our area have had redundancies over the last few years so that's rubbish about job security

It's a masseeeeve procedure to make redundancies in teaching.I've been through it as a school but thankfully didn't have it happen to me.

In the private sector it can be instant,no discussion and you're at the mercy re individual companies as to pay.A few family and friends have been through it where they're told at a meeting and not even allowed to return to their desks being instead escorted off the premises.

Companies can do what they like when they need to save money.