To think teachers are actually better off than those in the private sector

[coco44]

(Mumsnet Bosses
Please may I rephrase the debate in a more measured way)

I think most of those working in the public sector don't realise how well off they really are. Would love to see how far they got striking in the private sector. I have no sympathies with any of them. If you don't like your pay, terms conditions etc go work somewhere else instead of moaning all the bloody while

Interesting nc there...

soul2000, I believe you that this guy was a disgrace to teaching. & now he isn't teaching, so that's good, yes?

I'm just a tad sceptical about the megabucks payoff. I know four teachers who've been dismissed in the last few years, & if any of them are quids in, they've kept remarkably quiet about it.

The management at the school would have to be extraordinarily inept to leave themselves open to such a claim.

fcuk I DO Like my P&C - it's one of the reasons I don't want them to change drastically; not improve, just not change too much.

Raven Ak. All this is true but i have asked for a couple of threads to be removed because they might identify me.

The Management were inept.

The reason i know it was only half the amount he said because i was told the most he could get would be 6 months pay by somebody who is a education lawyer.

He used to say he was on £37k pa but knowing him it was more like £27k So even £ 20k was doubtful that is very intresting.

£37pa is roughly what I get, at the top of a classroom teacher's upper payscale.

I think it took me 10 years or so to get there, all of them requiring evidence that I was doing a good job.

So unless Mr Bullshit had some sort of management responsibility, &/or many years of successful teaching, no, he wasn't on £37k.

Also, 'the most he could get would be 6 months pay' means if he'd been dismissed unfairly, & could prove it. Which would not be the case if he was pissed at work (gross misconduct), unless the management really, really spannered up gathering evidence, he'd be entitled to absolutely NOTHING.

So - & I'm not having a go at you, you obviously believed his shite & have just parroted it back - we have, in fact, an inexperienced teacher who was rubbish, lied about his qualifications, got fired, & in the vanishingly unlikely event that he did come out of it with a few quid, that was down to his particular school having the most incompetent management in education history - but given that he lied about his pay off, there probably wasn't one. At all.

& yet this gets somehow converted into 'However 1 ex friend of mine who was a P.E teacher actually got away with teaching without actually passing GCSE Maths . I am not Joking he
just lied about it and got away with it for 9 years. He was a joke of a teacher, thankfully he is not in teaching now. However he managed to wrangle a £ 20k settlement for unfair dismissal.'

...most of which is, not to put too fine a point on it, bollocks hearsay.

& yet there you go, repeating it as fact. Teacher...unqualified...was crap...big fat payoff.

& then people wonder why teachers get pissed off with being slagged off. FFS.

Mirry we have disabled teachers at my school. I don't see how on earth that is relevant.

Did I put them right? No, I listened to their well reasoned arguments and lot them reach their own conclusion. They weren't scorning older people as useless and incapable of work but they didn't believe teaching is a job that can be done until 68. From a personal perspective, I will definitely not be in the profession until then and I don't know any teachers who expect to be either.

We have teachers that work past retirement age at my school. But it's not for everyone. I can see ways round that issue by moving staff from the 'front line'.
Not all subjects are equal. I share the Drama teaching with an older colleague (not at retirement age but who has had health problems). We are lucky to be able to split the classes so I do the practical teaching and she does the theory.

I think most of those working in the public sector don't realise how well off they really are. Would love to see how far they got striking in the private sector. I have no sympathies with any of them. If you don't like your pay, terms conditions etc go work somewhere else instead of moaning all the bloody while

I think most of those women working at home don't realise how well off they really are. Would love to see how far they got without men supporting them or trying to work themselves. I have no sympathies with any of them. If you don't like cleaning, cooking and changing nappies, don't expect a man to take you on, stay at home with your parents instead of moaning all the bloody while.

It's a good job mn wasn't around during the suffragette movement eh?

I just cannot understand your arguement. Yes some teachers may moan but then so do many people about their jobs, I don't see why they are not allowed to.

I know several teachers (heads of various things/SENCOs) and yes they do get lots of time off in the holidays, especially if they are organised with their preparation/planning but I also know that at 11pm/midnight during term time they are still doing paperwork as they have left work (not at 330 of course) picked their kids up from afterschool club, taken them to their various activities, cooked tea, put the kids to bed then started on their papaerwork for the following day.

That said, they may have a moan but they love their jobs, knew what they were getting into and for them the pros outweigh the cons.

I am not actually sure what you are saying, public sector workers are often lower paid but they also know that when they get into the roles, good pensions and other conditions are almost like a compensation for these things. I am a public sector worker and could earn at least £20-30k more a year elsewhere but I chose public sector as it is more flexible with my kids amongst other things. I don't really see why that sparks spiteful comments if people moan about their jobs though.

I do understand not everyone would agree that teachers are as hard done by as publicised or as all teachers may say, my friend is a uni lecturer (not in a core subject) earning twice as much as a teacher and working a lot less hours and they still moan which irritates me a bit but you are not actually putting together useful comments that anyone can debate on.

Oooh that was a bit of a rant!

None of the teachers at my son's school have ever gone on strike either, they value their jobs too much as realise they would be letting the children down. I really admire them for that, doesn't mean it doesn't mean as much to them as other teachers but they just would not do it.

Just wanted to say about uni lecturers. There are vast differences in payand workload. From prestigious unis where it is pretty cushy, to hourly paid teaching lecturers who often get a rough deal. You really can't compare from 1 person's experience.

"Just wanted to say about uni lecturers. There are vast differences in payand workload. From prestigious unis where it is pretty cushy, to hourly paid teaching lecturers who often get a rough deal. You really can't compare from 1 person's experience."

What a pile of unhelpful bollocks, clearly derived from "1 person's experience".

Here's the paradox. Those who complain the loudest and longest about teachers going on strike will also be those who complain the loudest and longest if the educational "reforms" fail their children. And they'll blame teachers for it. headdesk

Going on strike does not mean you don't "value your job". Quite the opposite. It usually means you want the conditions under which you work to be those in which you can do your job properly.

Going on strike also doesn't mean you ware letting children down. Quite the opposite-it means you are fighting to not let the children be let down by the government.

Cloverkiss, do you want your children taught by over worked, miserable 67 year olds or people with no qualifications at all? Or would you rather a team of bright enthusiastic graduates who will stay in the job because they love it and will give your children the benefits of their experience?! Do you really think the people striking are letting the children down?!

But teachers are striking for themselves and some of the "reforms" are much needed.

Some schools/ teachers already are letting kids down regardless of strikes.

I get really quite cross about people having a go at teachers, I know there are some utterly shite ones but. My mum may have had 13 weeks were she was not in a classroom teaching, but she was the only person sat by the pool on our two week holiday marking essays and lesson planning, I never saw anyone else doing their job whilst on holiday. Oh and the shock on people's faces when we said "no mums not a writer, she's a teacher" was priceless. My hat goes off to anybody who teaches, the amount of shit they have to put up with, they deserve double what they are paid.

Not necessarily, its still up to the individual.

I did not say I thought that, I said those teachers did sorry if my post was not clear. They may also have been lying about their reasons of course. I did not mention my opinion on it, I am not that silly on a thread like this as either way it would he jumped on. I just said I admire them for standing up for what they believe even if different from the majority.

I wonder if the difference is they are a very young staff team so it could be that they are not considering what the implications of not striking are.

Re the uni lecturers. I did not for one second suggest the case I mentioned was the same for all - what a ridiculous thing to say. Surely we are all drawing from our own experiences as opposed to speaking for everyone.

But teachers don't have the monopoly re working through their holiday.My dad was in the forces and always took his briefcase.Dp in IT often works on leave ditto sister in the charity sector.

Most sector workers work hard and put up with shite.

If schools (not most teachers, but the system) are letting people down, and other professions have it hard too, this is a reason to support strikes, not petulantly moan about them.

It's not a race to the bottom. People who have a voice should not silence it because others do not have one.

It's a word wide market,there is no money and budgets are tight.Tbh I think most are glad to have a job so get on with the pay freezes,less staff,more work etc.

It's life.

I personally don't want to pay more tax to fund these demands,would rather have more to put in our own pensions.

But teachers don't have the monopoly re working through their holiday

No but they do get told to put up and shut up because they get 13 weeks holiday a year.

Thank you Raven for putting me straight. a bit of background on the said person.

He worked in education from 1999-2010 he worked in different areas in
england the two incidents were 7 years apart

He was graded outstanding in two assesements by ofsted and the other gradings were good.

The whole of the P.E dept of that school was poison and at each others
throats.
He was recorded by a another member of P.E staff when i was there being goaded in to calling the management, the said P.E teacher then
played the recorded conversation of the hidden dictaphone to the senior
members of the management team.

A woman pe teacher who disliked him heard him swear at the boy, he denied he swore at the boy. The woman P.E teacher who told him she would not report it than joined in with the poison.

You can see what a department of poison it was.

I am not saying he was not a disgrace of a teacher but their are other facts as well.

P.S the school is located in one of the most deprived areas of the country
and he was always given the kids the other teachers could not deal with.