To think teachers are actually better off than those in the private sector

[coco44]

(Mumsnet Bosses
Please may I rephrase the debate in a more measured way)

... And that's a great way to treat employees is it?
Jeez, let's aspire to something a little more humane and professional

Gormen, how do graduate salaries compare in that age group (i.e. at the end of career)?

Teachers also have wonderful job security

Not since so many schools became academies and the new capability procedures were implemented last month.

Who says people don't.

The fact is it's business,it's life in a lot of cases and in anything that has a security element eg finance,IT it could be argued as necessary.

Simply pointing out that previous poster was right,there is more security in teaching.

^As a percentage only 1% of the U.K workforce earned 100k or more
only 10% of the U.K workforce earned over 50k.^
soul what has this got to do with teachers? Sorry if I am missing something...
No classroom teacher, even on the upper pay scale, earns over £50k. The vast majority of managers don't either (I was Head of a core subject, responsible for 5 teachers and a TA, and my pay only just crossed £40k). Could you explain to what your comment refers?
Also, there is no job security for teachers. Redundancies can happen exactly as they do in the private sector - if there are too many staff due to pupil numbers falling, someone has to go. There is a process, but it is not difficult.

Retropear
"It's a masseeeeve procedure to make redundancies in teaching.I've been through it as a school but thankfully didn't have it happen to me.

In the private sector it can be instant,no discussion and you're at the mercy re individual companies as to pay"

In the private sector it is not instant, they have to follow set down procedures and its the same with regard to redundancy pay.

Cardibach. My comment refers to Gormenghast remark about the perception of some that think people in the private sector are on 100k a year.

When many middle and senior managers in the private sector are probably on between 30-45k pa.

The comment was not aimed at teachers but in reply to Gormenghast.

Well, all I know is I earn less than my fellow MA politics graduates - who went to work in Brussels. But more than my Cambridge educated scientist friend who works in education at London Zoo. However, the key thing is we all enjoy our work!
With regards retirement age the whole nation is going to have to get creative. Otherwise our youth unemployment rate will spiral out of control.

Clsm - Its no difference to nursery managers/Child care staff who have much longer hours with the children. I know many all ready in 50s+ who are planning to do until 68. I dont see why its different for teachers.

Also what about men doing building/labouring jobs I know plenty of them aged up to 70. People are much fitter these days.

Generalisation. My mum had to take early retirement from the NHS. My dad never made it to his 'gold plated' civil service pension at 60, he died at 55.
Not everyone is the same. More flexibility is required in the system in general.

I know quite a few people in the trades. As they get older most have younger people who do the more physically demanding stuff, working with them. Or they are selective what jobs they take on. It isnt just fitness. For example, plumbers tend to have dodgy knees, labourers bad backs, etc.

People are living longer. They are also spending longer being ill or disabled before death. And the poorer you are, statistically the longer that time is.

If you are in Local Government, for most the pension age is now 67. I foresee those in the private sector with pensions in the future retiring before anyone in the public sector.

And women disproportionately make up the workforce of the public sector.At the moment, grandmothers are a key source of childcare for many mothers - especially low paid ones. This just won't be possible in the future and will have knock on effects.

Boney, I think everyone should get decent redundancy pay. But most people working in the private sector work in small businesses. Yes there is a procedure to go through. But with consultation it shouldn't take more than a month. And most people only get statutory redundancy pay which is pitifully low. I know because I have made people redundant, so know the legal procedure well.

... And I suspect if all labourers/ builders were part of a profession which takes a minimum 4 years to get into, requires graduate status and then requires you to pay 10% of your earnings for 40 years in order to receive an agreed retirement package, then I suspect we would see labourers striking in force

Janey68 - You wont see strikers in labourers, nursery staff etc as they will work as long as they have to as no pension. I have a 2.1 degree and work up to 50 hours for 15k. I would never dream of striking. Its what I signed up for.

Well obviously if you don't pay into a pension then you're not going to be striking about them!
This isn't a race to the bottom you know, as to who has the best degree and works the longest hours for the lowest pay! Though I can see that for some, the thread has descended into that.

This is about a specific set of circumstances facing the teaching profession and as a parent I fear deeply what Gove is doing to the education system

Without strikes and unions, none of us would have paid holidays, maternity leave, etc.

God if people paid what teachers paid in for 40 years and got the same pension they'd be thrilled.

Many,many jobs involve degrees for less than teachers get.

Many nursery workers will have an early years degree.

Performance related pay is much needed so don't get the beef there.

Sorry a lot of Gove has brought in is much needed.

Free schools are a daft idea,not keen on some of the curriculum,think Spag has been much needed,but they're not striking about free schools or the curriculum.

Pensions,performance related pay and PPA cuts (also much needed going by the hours my dc are taught by non teaching staff) I thought.

Perhaps somebody could enlighten us to the exact reasons as laid out by the unions that teachers are striking for. They seem to differ from that discussed on the news and laid out by unions to teachers on MN.

Grennie These employment rights are imposed by the EU

I woyuldn't say builders were less skilled than teachers TBH .I could have a fair go at teaching a class , but I wouldn't have a clue how to build a house!

pixie i suspect your teaching might be as good as your house building

Oh and the tightening up by Ofsted,focus on progress getting rid of Outstanding for schools where teaching isn't has benefited my dc hugely.

Here's hoping it moves from the bottom quintile for everything.

We're starting to get more info,some of my children seem to be getting pushed more and parents are actually getting listened to instead of a blanket wall of arrogance.

Sorry but a lot of Gove's measures have and will benefit many kids hugely.I'd respect teachers and support them more if they focused on the crack pot measures such as free schools,the mad history curriculum etc.This frustrates many of my teaching friends too.

My Dp's best friend is a builder who has a building degree,he is very talented.

I am a bovine vet

Christ really?! After all that build up, that was the best she could come up with. Hilarious.

Retro - you really dislike teachers don't you.