AIBU to hate charity Christmas shoe boxes?

[unlucky83]

We get asked to one from the school and from Sunday school ...2 Dcs that is 4 of them...last year I cut it down to 2 - doing the same this year
I really really really hate doing them...but DDs are upset if we don't ...
(at school they have an assembly where the people organising it talk to the DCs about them)...
We wander round the shops/supermarket making sure we get all the essentials on the list - buying the cheapest stuff there is ...kind of think hats/gloves/underwear are probably made by the people we send them back to..
I know I'm not on my own - everyone I know who does one says they do the same ...
Even then each box costs at least £30 ...could the money not be better spent directly by the charity buying good quality stuff that is going to last?
On the lists they say extras - like PJs - how the hell do you fit a pair of PJs for a teenager in a shoe box with all the other stuff...I find I can never fit much 'extra' in...usually just sweets as treats - good job they get toothpaste and toothbrushes or they'd have rotten teeth to add to their misery..

Then you have to find a box...then wrap the bloody things...
I just find it really difficult to wrap the box and lid separately and not get an end result that looks like it has been chewed by the dog...just spent the best part of 30 mins wrapping one that looks like a 2 yr old did it...

So am I being unreasonable to hate them and dread the leaflets coming home?

Sukebind - is your mums' group a Christian one?

The problem I have with Operation Christmas Child is that it generally presents itself as a great way for everyone, no matter what their beliefs, to do something lovely at Christmas for poor children around the world. The information pack for schools talks about 'spreading joy' - and who could argue with that? The pictures of children opening boxes with huge smiles on their faces are bound to suck people in. But - and it is a very big but - in its publicity material for schools and the general public it plays down, glosses over or just doesn't mention that the primary aim of the whole thing is evangelical.

However, as soon as you look at the leaflet it produces for churches, or the OCC website, or the Samaritan's Purse UK website or the US website for OCC, it becomes rapidly clear that the whole point of OCC, as far as the organisers are concerned, is to 'reach children for Jesus'. Handing out the boxes gives them a way to get big groups of children into churches and halls, in a state of great excitement, so that along with the shoeboxes they can get a pretty hardline evangelical booklet, and an invitation to a 12-step 'discipleship' programme.

Now, if the people putting together the boxes know about that, and support that kind of evangelising to children, and in particular are OK with Billy Graham-style heavy-duty biblical fundamentalism (creationism, describing Islam as evil, campaigning against same-sex marriage etc), then that is all fine. But most people who put together shoeboxes, and send along the requested donation to go with them, have absolutely no idea of what kind of organisation they are supporting - they just think it is doing something nice for children. Many of them, when they are told what OCC really is, are horrified.

On the other thread, the PR chief for OCC/Samaritan's Purse in the UK admitted that the materials given to schools do not give a full picture of what it is all about. They are, he promises, planning to redraft their school information in time for next year - even though these criticisms have been going on for years. I think the current state of affairs, where schools promote the scheme uncritically to all children, even those who are from Muslim, atheist, Hindu etc families, is deeply unethical. Which is why I am a regular on OCC threads...

I think shoeboxes are generally a bad, inefficient way of giving, but I can see that it is a fun and easy way to get children involved. If you really, really want to do a shoebox, there are others around which have no evangelical baggage attached (eg the Rotary Club one).

But unless you are a bible-bashing fundamentalist who thinks that underprivileged children are fair game for missionary activity, please think twice about supporting Operation Christmas Child.

5foot5 - shoeboxes for people in the UK sounds like a much better idea. No evangelism, no issues with culturally inappropriate material, no spending huge amounts of money and fossil fuels to get them to their destinations etc. Is it a national scheme you can tell people about on here, or a local one to you?

In fact the OP said quite a while back that the schemes she was involved in were not OCC - but the fact remains that OCC are the largest, best-organised shoebox operation in the UK, and have managed to get their foot in the door of many schools, as well as lots of other organisations (my local paper runs uncritical stories every year about how many boxes people have put together for them), which is why the issue of OCC has come up on this thread.

If you would like to do a shoebox for an organisation that isn't OC pm me and I will give you the details of how we do it. We hire a van, fill it and it is driven to Transylvania. No material is added and unless the hired van driver is a one man evangelist, though not being a native speaker it seems unlikely, the boxes are received straight into the hands of the people who are in genuine need.It is actually done for National Children's Day, not Christmas. The van sets out fron Leeds and I can pm anyone more details.

I've mentioned this further up the thread but want to say it again, I'm in Moldova and we distribute boxes for Link to Hope (formerly Link Romania). They don't add any material, there is categorically no evangelisation happening when the boxes are given out and they are for families or elderly people, not just a specific child.

Moldova is a predominantly Orthodox country so the issue of cultural appropriateness of a Christmas present isn't an issue, but tbh I don't think most of the children would care if you said it was celebrating Green Alien Day. They see a box of gifts, some of which are fun, some useful, some edible which someone has cared enough to put together and send to them in some far off country.

People here feel forgotten and abandoned and receiving a shoebox, especially if it has a card/message from the giver inside is a real joy for them. And it's a joy for us to be able to give them out.

starlight do you work with local people to distribute them then? Or are they for a specific group of children (eg in an orphanage)?

thanksamillion, boxes are given to every child in a gypsy village on the outskirts of Tirgu Mures. Distributed by the villagers themselves to ensure fairness ie they know who is in each family and recognise faces so can make sure noone gets over their fair share per family.

molding there was but the thread was from 2008.

sukebind, OCC's own website speaks of how the shoeboxes are used to evangelise children, so the people you say you know who have seen shoeboxes being given out must have missed that bit.

Where do you think the expression "rice Christian" comes from?

Dear all, I am Head of Communications at Samaritan's Purse, the charity behind the hugely popular Operation Christmas Child campaign. I see one or two names in this thread that I'm familiar with and they know me too!

As is the case in another open thread, I am here to present the truth, the facts about Operation Christmas Child and I'd be happy to answer any questions, or comment on anything you have heard about Operation Christmas Child. I promise you the truth, I have nothing to hide, nor does the charity I have the privilege of working for.

And let me take this opportunity of thanking so many Mumsnet parents, teachers and others who have supported Operation Christmas Child in the past; I hope we can count on your support again this year!

Regards, Brian Bennett

Son's school didn't go in for this but someone in hubby 's office did. Haven't been asked for a couple of years but usually spent £30 to £40 always opted for the teenage boy as assumed they would be overlooked but that might have been flawed logic. I think it was The Edinburgh Rotary who organised it but to be honest wasn't really paying attention. It did strike me that making a cash donation so that things which we really wanted or needed could be bought was more efficient.

I was paying more attention than hubby however who thought the many years of annual filling of a smartie tube with 20p pieces was to support Zero the disabled pony, rather than Zero, the pony sponsored by the school for riding for the disabled (a jolly good cause)

Hello Brian,

And thank you for joining the thread. My question would be - what is the truth about the extent of the evangelism behind OCC? Is it just leaflets in the shoeboxes, or are the rumours about more 'strong-armed' tactics around conversion true? If you could give an accurate picture of the role of evangelism in the shoebox programme, I think that would be v helpful. Thank you.

Dear all, I think the other thread is all but done, so you now have my full attention! I am working from home tomorrow so will review anything that needs my response on here and start responding them Hope you all have a pleasant evening.

Brian Bennett - Head of Communications
Samaritan's Purse International

Hello Brian

There is an unanswed question for you above, so I'm happy for you to answer that one first.

From me: on the OCC home page, it is stated that children who receive a shoe box are invited to enrol on a "discipleship programme", with the consent of their parents.
My questions are: (1) who consents for children who are orphans and (2) at what age do you consider a child can decide for his or herself whether to enrol on this programme?

Look forward to your reply.

Cooee, Brian! Anybody home?

Hello SuburbanRhonda, apologies for not being able to get in here sooner. As far as I am aware, no child is enrolled onto The Greatest Journey without the express permission of their parent/s, carer/s or responsible adult/s. So to answer your first question, it would be the carer/s or responsible adult/s who would be asked for their permission for an orphan, or orphans in their care to go on The Greatest Journey. Again, no child makes that decision themselves; we would always defer to parent/s, carer/s or responsible adult/s! Getting a little repetitive, but I hope this satisfies your concern?

Kind regards, Brian Bennett

Hello Sara11272, I'm working my way UP this thread so you're next!

OCC in and of itself is not an evangelistic programme; it's about gift-filled shoeboxes being given to some of the neediest children on the planet. That said, we generally use local churches to distribute the shoeboxes in the countries where we work and they will often use the distribution event to establish relationship with needy children and their families. And being church they will seek opportunities to invite these families to church not just to share their faith but also to help support these families throughout the year.

You made an assertion that there are 'leaflets in the shoeboxes' - NOT TRUE. We do not put leaflets, or any other 'religious' material' in shoeboxes; we will actually remove such items should we see them during the checking process, purely and simply because we do not want to cause offence to the receiving child, their family or community.

There are lots of 'rumours about more 'strong-armed' tactics around conversion'; let me assure you that these are just rumours. No matter how often we tell people this simply does not happen there are those who seem keen to keep such lies and misinformation alive.

In terms of the 'role of evangelism in the shoebox programme'? I think it's actually the other way round! We start with the shoebox, it has been wrapped and packed by someone who cares for children. We make sure that the purpose for sending the shoebox is achieved; to bring joy into the life of a needy child. We do this through local churches and these churches care more for the children and families than they do about evangelism; they are there for them, through thick and thin, all year long. These families will be invited to church but whether they go or not, they will be supported by their local church. They will hear the Gospel if they go to church, but not in any kind of forceful way; merely preached from the pulpit. When they see such 'good' going on, when they see people giving of their time and talent , often sacrificially, whether they have heard the Gospel or not, they often wonder why the church helps them when others don't. When they ask they will hear the Gospel message; Jesus told us to 'love our neighbour as ourself'. In my experience, that's how it works; nobody enjoys being preached at, least of all me, and I wouldn't support this programme as I do if this was so,

Apologies for my long response...you got me going! Kind regards, Brian

Thank you, Brian, that's really helpful and will hopefully be of interest to others on the thread. No worries about the length, I think it was necessary to make your point.

Apologies for getting it wrong about the leaflets - I was just repeating things I'd read stated as fact, so it's good to hear another side to the story. Thanks again. You've made me feel a lot happier about sending off my shoeboxes again this year.

Do you know (and this is a genuine question, as I have no idea of the answer) why there is such a strength of feeling amongst some people towards OCC? I'd never heard any of these opposing views before reading threads on here, and websites they linked to. I'm interested to know why it garners such strong 'anti' views...though appreciate that you may not know the reasons.

thanks Brian

I think it is a good thing and it makes sense to me.

Sara11272, glad to be of service. I'll answer your question in three parts...

Firstly, one of the problems with the Internet is that people can say what they want, even bare-faced lies, and it stays there for all to see for years to come. We can refute things, even have some of the misinformation retracted, but this stuff hangs around and new people pick it up each year and round we go again!

Secondly, it is only this year that I realised the disparity with what we were saying to schools and what we were saying to churches; some older material had been hanging around on our own website (!) that needed to be drawn into line. And it's only through being on Mumsnet that I was able to understand some of the reasons people were upset with OCC. And rightly so.

Thirdly, there are people opposed to any form of 'religion' in schools; we are an evangelical Christian organisation and we are really encouraged by the take up of OCC in schools. This flies in the face of those who want 'religion' out of our schools and because OCC is probably the largest external campaign supported in our schools, it comes under vitriolic attack, as evidenced on this thread and others over the years. Even outside of Mumsnet there are groups of people whose sole purpose in life seems to be removing OCC from our schools; often these people are humanists who seemingly want to force their particular religion on schools at the expense of ours. They have nothing against shoeboxes, they are always keen to suggest or promote other shoebox programmes, they just want OCC out. I say let the schools decide!

As I say, a lot of the 'attacks' are because of the FORMER disparity in messaging but, thanks to Mumsnet, I believe we have put this right.

Does that help?

Thanks Alemci, appreciate your support!

£30 a box?! What the hell are you putting in those things?!
I'm in the middle of doing our shoebox, and I've put nowhere near £30 in!
Possibly a tenner when it's all added up, but that's with a lot of things in!

Thank you, Brian, it does help. Thanks again.

No problem Sara, hope you have a nice weekend!