To not feed DS dinner until he's properly ravenous and sometimes a bit weepy?

[HarderToKidnap]

DS is 22 months and on around the 9th centile. Eats like a bird. Few mouthfuls of cereal for breakfast, cup of milk and fruit mid morning. Lunch is non existent at the mo, today he licked some cream cheese from an oatcake and had half an Ella's fruit pouch. Then a biscuit mid afternoon sometimes. I've pushed his dinner back to 530 from 445 ish and by the time I come to serve it he is RAVENOUS. He was roaring at me today "DINNER!" And crying with hunger whilst I was making it. He eats so much more though, today he did two scrambled eggs, smoked salmon and a yoghurt. He has milk before bed.

I feel a bit shit that my tiny toddler is crying with hunger by dinner time but it seems unless he is starving to the point of tears he doesn't bloody eat anything! At least this way he does eat. AIBU? And if I am, how should I jiggle meal times to try and make sure he eats?

Ffs Italians do not whack their children all the time!!! Not ALL of them anyway, just like in the UK.

And they DO have snacks, midmorning and midafternoon. The vast majority.

Hth

I do know they don't ALL. Italian law has no 'explicit prohibition' of corporal punishment of children: a matter of concern to child protection agencies, who say that 'many children in Italy are still suffering corporal punishment, and violent punishment of children is still culturally and socially accepted'.

It sometimes gets up my nose when Brits rave about how well behaved Italian children seem. My sibs and I were extremely well behaved, for the same reason, just as we ate when directed to eat.

Sorry it gets up my nose when I start reading italians do this and italians do that, and most of the time it's totally inaccurate!

Corporal punishment is not illegal, but that doesn't mean it is widely used. From observation, I wouln't say so.

It's important to remember that hunger isn't an ever increasing feeling until eating occurs.

Hunger comes in waves, it is possible to 'go past it' and not feel hungry again without eating.

By waiting until your child is ravenous you are risking him going past it and not wanting to eat.

I also found it a bit that you automatically assumed that your DS eats more at the childminders because they tv is on... Yet you said yourself that his nap is much shorter. That is a big thing. I'd suggest that shorter naps and having other children around is more likely to be the reason for him eating more there than at home.

The body slows the metabolism whilst sleeping. Breakfast, snack, long sleep, lunch - his metabolism will have slowed down for 2.5 hours, he hasn't had chance to fully process breakfast and snack or burn off all the energy - it's not surprising he isn't hungry for lunch.

I know you said he is transitioning and needs the long nap (and it IS long for that age) but I don't think you can ignore the fact that he sleeps less and eats more at the childminders. That is a fact, unlike the assumption that he is possibly having lunch in front of the tv (never met a childminder who would do that).

If he doesn't need the sleep at the cm why does he need it at home?

I agree with the poster who said he probably eats more because he is ravenous, but that doesn't mean he needs thate xtra food, more that he doesn't realise when he's full quickly enough.

I can empathise as I have had a child who didn't eat much, both in quantity and variety, always been between 9th and 25th percentile. She still is at 12.

I would avoid giving biscuits, if he needs snacks in between meals to keep him going (as most toddlers do), make them healthy, no biscuits, but fruit, cheese, toast, that all counts as food he's eaten in the day. Whether that's broken down in 3 main meals or 6 little ones makes no difference to the overall amount he's had in the day.

I know it easier said than done, bu t trying to relax is the best thing you can do for both of you

Tell your dh/dp not to let you eat until you are screaming for food.

Then come back & ask us again!

Really op, just give him smaller portions. You do know that a child's stomach is roughly the size if their fist, don't you?

OP< your child hasn't read any books on "how you should eat, etc" so he just listens to his body and you need to trust in that. Mothers do not know everything and I suspect a lot of people have an unhealthily attitude to food because they were made to eat everything on their plates long past when they were satisfied. People who eat slowly generally are slimmer and don't over eat because there is time for the I am full message to get to the brain.

Make sure what you give him is healthy and appropriate for his age and I suggest you step right back and let him show you how he wants to eat. If it becomes a problem doing that - and I mean a proper genuine problem - then you need to rethink things.

Having a screaming situation at the dinner table is not going to end well.

Oh & my 10yr old wouldn't eat 2 scrambled eggs.

2 scrambled eggs, smoked salmon and a yogurt is a lot of food for a young toddler imo.
DD is 5 and at school full time and she would really struggle to eat all that food in one session.

My older son has always hovered around the absolute lowest centile and often eats like a bird. However between the ages of 6 and 7 he has started eating - lots - and he is filling out and growing upwards. He is now very tall and getting hairy!

I've never really been a snacky kind of mother, unlike some of my friends who think their child suffer terrible consequences if they arrive for a day out without enough food to feed the 5000. I really think you need to relax a bit. However 5.30 seems a bit late. Both my boys are grazers really, so at tea time I prepare cold meats, carrots, cheese, hummus etc and they'll take ages to get through it.

YABU.

It will create problems further down the line. You really do not want your son to associate eating with crying and being upset

OP, you have to do what you have to do

however, to test you are not being cruel who not feed him 445 one day and analryse the difference? if he eats nothing all day he might be just at hungry at 445pm???

Poppy
"In France and Southern Europe people don't snack at every opportunity (especially children) and I think it's healthier."

maybe in France, but South Italy has major major child obesity issues, statistically I think they have a worse rate than the UK. they stuff the kids with sweets and crisps. alot of chubby bimbi I am afraid, I blame Mulino Bianco!

How I yearn for the 70s , no money = no snack cupboard

just take a deep breath and relax.

make the morning nap shorter - if he can do it at the childminders he can do it for you.

reduce the snacks

do not leave eating until he's weepy - you're setting yourself up for a childhood deominated by eating issues.

9th centile is fine - he's getting enough nutrition even if you don't think he is.

Can I ask if you sit with him to eat? My children don't eat tea till late by most people's standards (we eat about 6.30pm) but that was specifically so that they could sit down and eat with DH and me. We then weren't in such a hurry - I found that, the days when the children were eating separately to us, I was hurrying them along as they seemed to be takingages. They weren't taking any longer than usual - I just didn't have my own meal to distract me so felt like they were taking forever. Consequently, they ate better when we all ate together. And there's less focus on what they're eating and more on 'having a meal together'.

My 12 year old would've pushed to eat 2 eggs and smoked salmon btw.

Been pushed

I haven't read every post on this thread OP, but FWIW - I've always been unhappy about toddlers having a biscuit in the mid-afternoon. One biscuit for a toddler must be the equivalent of an adult having half a dozen biscuits.

It's so easy for littlies who prefer to eat as a response to being hungry to just pick at food that wouldn't have been their first choice. As you say, healthy, savoury balanced meals are so much more inviting and enjoyable when you're hungry.

If they're not aware of being hungry they'll probably still eat biscuits/sweet things - at the expense of having better nutrition.

And although calorific requirements are daily - so in theory it would be fine to have mostly protein at one sitting and mostly carbs at another - it's not good for keeping his blood sugar levels nice and stable.

I think your approach is sensible.

It all sounds like a but of a rigid schedule- if you're really worried and able to ditch the notion of breakfast at this time, snack at this time, lunch at a certain time etc. I would as he may eat more breakfast say at 9.30. My Dd is 2.5 and won't eat breakfast and I have to do the school run which is nearly 2 miles so I bring a bit of bread and butter and cheese or a bananna?

Equally, the diet sounds like it is lacking in carbs- aren't they good for putting weight on? My DS is 6 and is skinny despite eating a lot so I tend to give him a lot of carbs if I can.

YABU. My children all dropped centiles from the 50th to right off the bottom. They all had small appetites and needed to eat small amounts and often.

They are now 9,8 and 5 and all very slim, very fit and good eaters.

'2 scrambled eggs, smoked salmon and a yogurt' would have been much too much at the age of 2.

I gave them small amounts of food, regulalry. I still do.

Oh and we are in mainland Europe, where the obesity problem is far less pronounced then in the UK. Children get given biscuits as a snack at school, and are even allowed nutella sandwiches in teh after-school childcare.

Just read Poledra's post about eating together. I completely agree. It's much nicer for him to take part in eating together. He might even feel that he's missing out if he has to stop what he's doing to sit on his own for a meal.

Sorry if that's not relevant.

If you want him to have hot food as his tea (no need for this but...) I would make something you can cook in advance - pasta bake in the oven, for example - and leave it there on a low heat until he's ready. That way once he does reach hunger point, you don't have 20mins+ of frantic cooking whole he screams. The food will be slightly cooler but most toddlers I've known don't want very hot food anyway, and will eat most things tepid.

" dropped centiles from the 50th to right off the bottom. They all had small appetites and needed to eat small amounts and often."

That's the debate though? Perhaps they didn't eat 'proper meals' for want of a better expression, because they were never hungry enough to eat something substantial. And knowing that there will be the option to fill up on something else in an hour or two doesn't encourage anyone to eat their (nutritious) dinner.

My DS was on the 50th centile until he was a few months old. Then he gradually dropped down too. And he's fit and energetic and has a skinny mum. So the low weight is probably nothing to worry about. But it's probably healthier to be in the habit of having balanced meals + very small snacks that don't leave you feeling full.

YABU. I can understand why you're worried - my son was always below the bottom centile line for weight and on the 50th for height. He eats like a horse now he is 6 and his weight is still there, it is just how he is built, my dh was the same as a child (sadly, I don't have that problem!)...but all the evidence shows that eating to appetite is the best thing for young children - if you look at his intake over several days rather than one meal, you'll probably find he is getting all he needs, and he won't starve himself - but in order to develop a healthy relationship with food, he needs to learn to eat when he is hungry and stop when he is full, not be pushed to eat more than he needs, or denied food when he is hungry.

Do you give him snacks? Toddlers stomachs are tiny, and can't take large amounts of food at once. A healthy snack mid morning and mid afternoon, plus a milky drink at bedtime will give him the calories he needs and keep his blood sugar constant - but just offer, don't worry if he doesn't eat.

Also, it is normal in the second year fopr children's appetites to become smaller as their rate of growth slows down.

The other thing is, does he drink much milk? If he does, he will take less food. You might want to decrease the amount of milk he is having?

I think smaller portions is the way to go. My DD is the same but once we eliminated snacking and HUGE portion sizes she seemed to eat more and at the same time as us.

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry but just wanted to add my experience.

Me and my dsis were very small (still are actually) and ate like birds. Our mum endlessly stressed about what we were eating and made a big issue of eating all our tea etc.

As a teen I had a few minor eating issues such as not wanting to eat in front of people and things like that but thankfully never went any further. Now I eat quite a lot for my size and dsis is actually trying to lose weight.

All my dc are small too and go through a stage of eating next to nowt. I just go with it and try not to stress. They won't starve.

You aren't being cruel though. My mum tried everything. She did it out of love.