For all those who won't fold for wheelchairs YABU

[GobbySadcase]

only now it's legally recognised

blows raspberries

Thats just stagecoaches interpretation though, which doesnt specifically say they will kick off disabled parents with buggies, just that wheelchairs take priority over buggies.

And if you read the actual equality act it is not so clear either.

Proud, there are people with the exact same condition as me, to the exact same extent, who use a wheelchair. I choose not to, as i have two toddlers to get around.

Yes, some people are lucky enough to be able to fold (but I'd reckon that very often isn't the case) but how would you expect someone unable to stand to do this?

One disability does not trump another and the space is not designated for disabled passengers, it is designated for wheelchair users.

Living in London, here, you should know that most buses are every 10 mins. (20 at most) That's not long to wait for another one if you have to get off, which happens only rarely.

Plenty of people manage to fold their buggies, even with shopping, including me, and I'm a granny, getting on a bit. I've taken 2 under 5's all over London on my Freedom Pass. People are very helpful, outside the rush hour.

I think you're limiting your life unnecessarily. Give it a go. It's not as bad as you think.

This is good news, however, what would happen if you had twins in a buggy? My twins are 11 months old and can't walk. How would you hold two babies, a nappy bag and a big double buggy (and shopping if you had any?)

To paraphrase the disability/wheelchair parts of the equality act (which also covers race and religion, among other things in case you didnt know, as you said it only applies to wheelchairs) it says - allowances must be made for disabled people and there should be provisions for people in wheelchairs

Never, you'd get off the bus if you weren't able to get help from anyone else on the bus.

In normal circumstances I agree but a parent with severe arthritis being unable to fold the buggy and crippled by having to wait for the next bus is not normal circumstances.

The legal obligation is to make reasonable adjustments for anyone with a disability and I'd hardly call making someone with arthritis wait an hour at a cold, draughty stop for the next bus reasonable.

I suspect that the bus company thought - we have a wheelchair space, any other disabled person would be fine ina regular seat and interpreted the act accordingly.

As a disabled person myself I have found that these policies often disadvantage us, are not properly thought through and discriminate against another disabled group.

Good news, I hope this makes bus companies sit up and realise that they need to ensure that (barring other wheelchairs/mclaren major type prams) people who are diasabled can access the buses without the worry about others being in the way.

i think it will take a lot to stop the entitled attitude from parents who refuse to move though unfortunatly :(

Whenever you have two disabled people competing for the same resource it gets difficult. Then it comes back to what a reasonable adjustment is. IMHO the answer would be to ask another (able bodied) passenger to stand for the person with arthritis, as any seat would be fine for them, and allow the wheelchair into the larger space. In other words, if you can find another reasonable adjustment for the person with greater flexibility of need and solution, that is the best answer.

I couldn't access the buses at all with my twins (aged 18 now and yes, I am ancient). So I had to walk everywhere, in all weathers. Such is life.

Can't believe the bus company is disappointed at the decision and is looking into it! Ffs what's to look at? Their policy was illegal, end of!

and of course someone would have to help them fold the buggy, sorry, should have said that.

Sad to think that in London this has to be formalised. Where I live I dont think you'd be left to struggle on your own, TBH.

I can't see the problem with asking for help. If the bus is busy there's always someone willing to help. I have even seen drivers helping, holding babies etc to help people fold and also helping them when they get off too.

Maybe the drivers up here are generally nicer?

This decision is non-binding (being a County Court decision), except on FirstBus, who operate bus franchises in:

Aberdeen
Berkshire & The Thames Valley
Bradford
Bristol, Bath & The West
Calderdale and Huddersfield
Devon & Cornwall
Dorset & South Somerset
Essex
Greater Glasgow
Greater Manchester
Hampshire
Leeds
Leicester
Norfolk & Suffolk
South & West Wales
South East & Central Scotland
South Yorkshire
Staffordshire & South Cheshire
Worcestershire & Herefordshire York

The opposite decision was reached against Arriva, who are another major operator:

www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10393515.Arriva_North_East_wins_landmark_discrimination_case_brought_by_wheelchair_passengers/

The Equalities Act isn't clear, hence two different judges coming to opposite conclusions.

So it isn't legally recognised at all.

Well if thats the question, why cant someone in a wheelchair just ask for help to fold it?

Because its fucking demeaning, thats why

I saw this this morning when dropping DS2 and Playschool.

www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Wheelchair_priority_space_campaign.pdf

er surely people are talking about folding buggies with limited stength and mobility, eg arthritis?

not many people would start folding the wheelchair, surely? and transferring to a seat and all the rest of it? that would be just nuts.

I'm pretty sure there is nothing in the equality act about the layout of a bus meaning that one disablity trumps another.

Those of you who are saying that a wheelchair user has priority over a parent who cannot fold buggy due to severe arthritis what is the solution?

Making them wait for the next bus is not an option unless there is somewhere warm and dry to wait. Waiting in the cold and wet could exacerbate arthritis especially if the service is infrequent.

Help folding and unfolding seems like a more practical solution but could anyone enlighten me as to whether drivers are allowed to do this? Relying on other passengers is not an option as they may have alighted before the parent with arthritis.

Better still - could someone enlighten me as to what adjustments are in place to allow parents unable to fold buggies to access public transport? It appear that they are overlooked in the conditions of carriage cat mentioned despite the equality act applying to them?

I have arthritis and I push my daughters wheelchair, do I have greater priority over everyone?

Yes binky, you win :)

www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/Wheelchair_priority_space_campaign.pdf working link this time, check out the mums AND dads.

Do you know what, ProudAS, what would help would be if everyone had a bit of compassion and could look further than their own shopping and offer help where it is needed? Or even offer help if it isn't. That way someone could help your friend access the bus and fold and there would be another person to help at the end of the journey.

Why aren't people just generally more helpful?

I'm Cleary going to come across badly but where do you put your baby while you fold the buggy?
With twins I physically couldn't manage it but even with one baby it wouldn't be easy. Add in a full shopping basket and it would be a nightmare. Don't think this is mums being selfish imo but you can all be out raged and I'll carry on polluting in my car.

It is totally do-able with one baby, buggy and bag/s.

How do you think parents coped before the bus designs were changed?