For all those who won't fold for wheelchairs YABU

[GobbySadcase]

only now it's legally recognised

blows raspberries

Sad that there's so many people around who won't show any consideration towards others unless there's a law that says they have to. You see it in so many scenarios, not just the selfish parents who comandeer wheelchair spaces and dig their heels in when asked to move.

There is no argument. Wheelchairs have priority in law.

If someone is too stupid to realise that a massive, non-folding pram isn't going to be a good idea for using on a bus then that is their own fault.

And yes, having children is a choice, as is how you choose to transport them.

Having a disability isn't a choice and anyone saying wheelchairs should have to wait because their precious child is asleep/their pram won't fold is an utter arsehole of the highest order.

I had a light, small buggy I couldn't fold at one point (it had been broken while flying, and I had to cobble it together with wire while the requisite part came in), but I was quite clear that, should a wheelchair user get on the bus, I would get off with newborn DS and get the next bus. This was London, so no long waits.

I think it only happened once or twice. The only thing I felt bad about was that both wheelchair users were apologetic, which they shouldn't have had to be...

gawd how depressing. 99% of the time, no wheelchair user gets on. For that rare time when they would like to use a bus, how can some people be so selfish and blind to the realities of using a wheelchair full-time that they try to argue that "its just as bad for them" to fold up their buggy?

It's public transport, people. Which means we share it. Nicely. And wheelchair users clearly come first in that space.

Surely the answer is to force the bus companies to meet all needs- i.e. they have to provide one area for wheelchair users as they do currently, which is solely for wheelchair users or pushchairs used by children with disabilities and is not be used by anybody else with prams/pushchairs/ shopping trolleys. If it's not in use, it remains empty so that a wheelchair user can get on further along the route. Ideally it would accommodate 2 wheelchairs.

They could easily re configure the seating arrangements elsewhere on the bus to provide space for pushchairs / prams on a first come first served basis, and still retain priority accessible seating for the less mobile.

My iCandy was a cheap bargain as the button that makes it fold is broken. I have no problem in either waiting for the next bus or getting off the bus if needed. I just phone and apologise if I'm going to be late for something.

This is all very well but the problem with these threads is when someone comes along and says 'well I don't think the person in the wheelchair should have priority, I was there first and my baby was asleep and I have a toddler and a pile of shopping too'
Then we all try to explain about the disabled persons rights being upheld by the Equality Act 2010 and having children is just a lifestyle choice. But the person who disagrees just never gets it.

Bun fight ensues.

and repeat

How do you suggest they stop people from using the space?

There are notices on Stagecoach buses that state that the space is for wheelchairs but may be used for buggies if it is not being used. Buggies must be folded or moved if a wheelchair needs the space, and people are reminded that that is the law.

Our drivers up this way don't ask buggies to fold, they tell them, when it is necessary. Anyone who argues with them would get short shrift.

Fantastic that he won the ruling but very sad that it was necessary in the first place.

As far as I can see, it's very clear. Those spaces are specifically for wheelchair users, and were fought for very hard. As a concession, if the space is not needed, it can be used for pushchairs at the driver's discretion.

I don't understand how people can argue that they shouldn't be asked to leave the bus if a wheelchair user needs the space.

At the risk of sounding ancient and stroppy, many of us took babies and toddlers on public transport before you were allowed to wheel a pushchair on. We managed.

The company have been given six months to change their policy. This will have to include changing their notices and making it absolutely clear. Ergo, people will be referred to the notice which will make it clear that it is the law. The bus driver will now have to enforce the law, how he does that is up to him, either not moving until such time as the non folder folds, or calling the police to ensure that the law is upheld.

Exactly, DawnDonna.

I use the bus a lot and I'd be quite happy to wait if a driver had to stop a while to get a buggy fold refuser off the bus. I'd also be quite happy to tell the buggy user they are a disgrace as well.

I always get cheered up when someone like you posts YoutheCat, it means that other people are keeping an eye out for people like my dd. Thank you!

Another thing with buggy users and buses is the buggy full of shopping and the child sitting on the seat. A young mum with a tiny baby wanted to get on the bus, the mum who was using the space didn't want to move her shopping and fold her buggy. Some people just have no manners.

The way I see it is, one day that might be my friend or child or even me in that wheelchair trying to live my life.

Allowing someone to get away with behaving like a twat is just not an option.

Oryx agree. Buses were no fun when mine were little- no spaces, and no dipping buses that came down to street level so yuo could get on level. You could lift everything in, but you had to fold it all up and hope there was room in the parcels bit.

Double buggy- forget it. Double buggy plus third toddler- I used to walk.

The buses have improved hugely since then- no wheelchair user could have got on either, back in the day. It does seem a shame that what was meant to improve access for wheelchair users has just resulted in non-disabled people getting more entitled.

What if a parent has severe arthritis and cannot fold the buggy? The equality act applies to them just as much as it does to a wheelchair user and their journey is no less important?

No it doesn't. It applies to wheelchairs.

If someone can't fold they could ask for help or get off and wait for the next bus.

inertia the thing about reconfiguring the space is that then it could very easily just get filled up with more pushairs/suitcases etc on busy routes. And if you take up too many seats then that makes it harder for the elderly and people with other disabilities to travel safely. People should understand that there is a hierarchy of need and a pushchair (not a wheelchair pushchair) should come below a wheelchair. Babies can be transported without pushchairs but wheelchair users need them to lead their lives. If you travel a lot by bus, you should have a fold up one or a sling, if you don't then on the extremely small liklihood that you'll have to get off because you don't have a fold up, well that's just life.

Why can't they just design buses sensibly so that the majority of seats flip up and down, like in cinemas, so there is adequate space for any combination of wheelchairs, buggies and folk requiring a seat? Rather than the current set up where any more than one buggy/wheelchair requires a huge amount of inconvenience for the buggy owner in having to unload their shopping, bags, sleeping/crying baby , fold and store their buggy on a moving bus and locate a seat. They could install some luggage racks at the same time.

No it doesn't. It applies to wheelchairs.

If someone can't fold they could ask for help or get off and wait for the next bus.

The needs of a wheelchair user do not automatically take priority over those of another disabled person. If you check the equality act legislation you will see that it applies to anyone with a disability.

The bus company have a legal obligation to make reasonable adjustments for a parent who cannot fold the buggy due to severe arthritis and the fact that there is no dedicated space for them does not change this.

Making someone get off a bus because they have arthritis is just as discriminatory as refusing to allow a wheelchair user on not to mention the problems that waiting for another bus in the cold and wet could cause to someone with arthritis.

It's easy to say "ask for help" but what if there is nobody around to help unfold the buggy at the end of the journey? It would be ideal if the driver were to help but what if " elf n safety" stops them.

If you have two disabled people who both need the space, the pragmatic thing is for the last one along to wait for the next bus. But most of the time this doesn't happen; it is non-disabled people being unhelpful to a single disabled user.

Velvet- its not just about being able to pack 'em on. you need to be able to evacuate a wheelchair in case of accidents. And secure the chair. And move up and down to the back of the bus. There would only be about ten sets per bus if you did that.

About time.

number 5

Wheelchairs have priority.

I agree beast and the key word is "disabled" not "wheelchair".

A colleague of mine uses a wheelchair but can (and often does) fold it and transfer to a regular seat. Another colleague has severe arthritis (like the case I mentioned) and having to wait an hour at a cold, draughty bus stop just so that a wheelchair could get on a bus would probably land her in one.

Cat - a statement in the bus company's conditions of carriage does not over ride the equality act.